Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gatch gereftani (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Without prejudice to a redirect j⚛e deckertalk 14:49, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Gatch gereftani
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Probable hoax. No Ghits that I can find. The article was deleted, back in 2004, following Articles for deletion/Gatch gereftani. However, though the text is nearly identical, this article is probably not speedable as a recreation since it has the addition of a reference that I am not able to check. TerriersFan (talk) 00:39, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:43, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:43, 29 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete JSTOR has nothing. The cited source, The book of torture and executions , can't be purchased on Amazon. Worldcat says only two copies exist in Canada and only one copy exists in the US. (Fails WP:V) Since the term isn't mentioned anywhere else, it is more likely this is a hoax than a non-notable torture method. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 04:07, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I can't figure out what "Golden Books of America" Toronto is although they seem to have published books about crime, etc. The actual author of the book appears to be someone called Richard Sair, and although the book exists it is extremely rare so this can't be verified. But I'm proposing a merge or redirect as the subject is already covered. Dougweller (talk) 16:27, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge or Delete depending on whether we can verify the roof bit. The book used doesn't seem to qualify as an RS and there isn't even a page number. We already cover this Persian form of torture in Immurement in more detail so we certainly have no need for this article. I can find a source that calls this 'gatching'. I note that this source and the sources in our Immurement article provide a slightly different description and I would not happy with the description in this article being used. Dougweller (talk) 16:27, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - The Immurement in Persia section doesn't really cover the asphyxiation method described in the article but rather methods from which the victim dies of dehydration or exposure. I am sure that we can't merge anything because nothing is reliably sourced and merging in unsourced material is not acceptable. We also should not redirect the article because Gatch gereftani fails WP:V and thus cannot be added to the target without confusion. The best we can do is add some text from that source that you helpfully found if you consider it sufficiently reliable. TerriersFan (talk) 18:23, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * CommentThe differences are minor. In particular they seem to have had several ways of using 'gatch', a silty expanding sand also referred to as gypsum. I found yet another variant: "The Captains and the Kings Depart: Life in India, 1928-46 - Page 63 Jack Bazalgette - 1984 - Persia had few C class roads in those days, but one followed the best track one could ... When bandits were caught, a tower four or five feet high would be built around them and filled to their necks with gatch or lime plaster." These are all forms of immurement. Dougweller (talk) 20:54, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.