Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gaylord Graves


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep as there are no Delete comments (NAC). SwisterTwister  talk  17:49, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Gaylord Graves

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Unable to verify this person existed - fails WP:NOR. No indication that this person is considered notable or of historical significance - fails WP:BIO. FYI, I didn't affix the BLP tag Steve Quinn (talk) 01:22, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:58, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wisconsin-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:58, 25 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep Graves was a member of the state legislature, such people are default notable. No original research is not a license to exclude notable people who have not been mentioned in recent publications. The source given is not a primary source.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:58, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep State legislators are notable-thank you-RFD (talk) 11:50, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment State legislators are notable if their existence can be proved and they were in fact state legislators. There is no source in the article which demonstrates he existed and he was a legislator. The "Political Graveyard" is not a reliable source because it lacks editorial integrity per WP:RS - please see these for the determined value of Political Graveyard as reliable sourcing on Wikipedia:,  Also, It looks like a hobbyist website. It is known to have a lot of typos. This does not demonstrate notability of the topic and neither do the other two sources.


 * In any case, having mention as a legislator on that website is not proof of existence, nor proof of having been a legislator . So, how can this source have any weight regarding this person's existence? So, yes indeed WP:OR applies as well as failing WP:V, which is a cornerstone of Wikipedia as an encyclopedia, as well as a policy. Talking about a source that is not a primary source, which source do you mean? And asserting state legislators are notable does not make them notable, as is happening with the second Ivote.


 * Also, how long was he a legislator? How many terms did he serve in office? Did he retire from the state legislature or someplace else? What was his wife's name? What was his children's name? Where did he attend high school or its equivalent? What college degree did he obtain? Did he apprentice in a trade? So, far nobody knows. I think this person is WP:MADEUP Steve Quinn (talk) 19:21, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This link, to a book published by the Wisconsin State Assembly about its past members, does verify that he sat as a state legislator. Yes, the article needs improvement — but a state legislator is deletable only if his existence proves entirely unverifiable. If verification is available that he did hold the office he's claimed to have held, then the article is kept and merely flagged for reference and content improvement. For a legislator who lived and died and served in the 19th century, it'll obviously take more work to dig out quality referencing than it would for a current incumbent who's getting current news coverage — one has to actually dig into books and microfilms and archives and such, rather than just laying down a link to a brand new article on a newspaper website — but for a state legislator, the article's basic keepability is dependent solely on whether his holding of office can be verified and anything beyond that is a matter for the normal editing process. Bearcat (talk) 20:03, 25 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep as a verifiable member of a state legislature. Any content or referencing issues, beyond basic confirmation that he held the stated role, are for the cleanup crew and not AFD. Even with only spotty access to 19th-century US newspaper coverage, I've already been able to add one reasonably substantial clip of a newspaper article about him, so more coverage clearly will exist if somebody with better access to newspaper content from that historical period can take it on. Bearcat (talk) 20:03, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment-I found an article in the Northern Vindicator, September 13, 1889 about his death; the Legislative Manual of the State of Wisconsin 1877 also mentioned that Graves served in the Wisconsin Territorial House of Representatives in 1846 and in the Wisconsin State Assembly in 1848. Thank you-20:27, 25 August 2016 (UTC)-Forgot to sign my name-RFD (talk) 20:31, 25 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment Thank you Bearcat and RFD for providing this information. I agree this person is notable. I will be withdrawing my nomination shortly. Steve Quinn (talk) 01:02, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you-RFD (talk) 12:45, 26 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.