Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gemma Mewse


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. There have been several comments posted here from brand new or unregistered users, and these votes are usually given less weight since they tend to indicate canvassing or recruitment among people unfamiliar with Wikipedia policy. Even so, I have found that some of the points made on the keep side are valid and relevant, in particular the one about radio air time, but by itself this is not always sufficient. (It depends somewhat on the nature of the program airing it, and the frequency in which it is aired.) The bulk of the argument from established users has clearly been against the article, and since Ms. Mewse's album has not yet been released, the argument that this article is premature for an up-and-coming artist appears to be based on sound reasoning. Sjakkalle (Check!)  11:07, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Gemma Mewse

 * – ( View AfD View log )

This article heavily relies on primary sources to try and demonstrate this person's notability, and most of the references and Google hits are merely links to interviews about her performance and/or are lyrics databases again, which doesn't appear to meet WP:BASIC for biographies. The page says that "Her debut album is due to be released in May 2011" but unfortunately it's not May 2011 yet. Also, since this person is a singer, she also needs to meet WP:MUSIC, and the interviews don't cut it. In all, the most I could find was one single reliable source from a news clip, which could be dubious since it only mentions her in passing, and attending a single event would hardly count as a tour. :| TelCo NaSp  Ve :|  08:35, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  — :| TelCo  NaSp  Ve :|  08:35, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep: Under the WP:MUSIC requirements it states that a musician is considered 'notable' if he/she meets "at least one of the following criteria". I believe that Gemma Mewse reached these requirements as she 'has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.'   Having been in rotation on BBC1's Kissy Sell Out show and RTÉ Pulse's Twilight show.  Mdanie2 (talk) 09:28, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete It is a blatant fan/promotional/cv page, and for that reason alone I think it should go. I can't see why an encyclodedia should think it notable to know that she attended a primary school and that while there she "became interested in musical theatre and dance". I can find only this,, relating to BBC1's Kissy Sell Out mentioned above - a Mewse track appears to have been played, but in rotation? I can find only a radio (self-referencing) phone-in interview between  RTÉ Pulse's Twilight show and Mewse - played in rotation? The inline cites in the article to personal blogs, myspace, you tube, her apparent record company, and to  someone who is supposed to have said that she is going to be big (not supported in the link), are completely unacceptable, as is an actual inserted quote from her blog, for goodness sake. The only thing that appears mildy arresting is the film short, in itself not notable enough. I suspect Mewse will be notable, but she is not at the moment, and this piece of promotional fancruft doesn't prove it, and of course we are not into star-gazing on Wikipedia. As User:TeleComNasSprVen found, in July she is booked to appear near the bottom of the bill on the camp site stage at the Hop Farm Festival: , I bet this bit of low-level stuff goes on next :)  If this article does stay it needs a radical copyedit by an editor not close to the subject, or indeed the subject herself, and perhaps reduced to a stub. A previous promo article for Gemma Mewse was created by User:Mdanie2/Gemma Mewsetalk. Acabashi (talk) 16:12, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep: An article was initially created for Gemma Mewse as a template with no content on the page and was nominated for a speedy deletion, and as a result I requested for the page to be deleted in its entirety. I understand that Wikipedia is a community and you are acting as some kind of volunteer watchdogs to maintain the integrity of the site. What I don't understand is the insulting tone and condescension of the above comment.  Pages can be edited. Content can be removed and added.  Why not be helpful and informative, and make suggestions as to how the page can be improved or made acceptable according to the wikipedia guidelines, rather than belittling.  I am attempting to cite all sources, comments and claims as recommended by wikipedia. The first suggestion to acquire more secondary and tertiary sources was far more helpful than the above supercilious comment. 90.204.69.166 (talk) 19:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep: "Someone who is supposed to have said that she is going to be big", was in fact Andrew Roachford, a 'notable' and well respected singer-songwriter. Which is in fact cited on her page.  92.24.173.107 (talk) 11:33, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 * How does that relate to WP:MUSIC? :| TelCo  NaSp  Ve :|  11:46, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 * it relates to the fact she performed with Andrew Roachford on the SXSW Event at a Venue and he posted the remark on his own website i hardly thik you can count 'Andrew Roachford' as a 'Someone'
 * Which one of the criterion does that fit under though? Number 1 or 2 or...? And you're making a case for Andrew Roachford, not the Gemma article. :| TelCo  NaSp  Ve :|  14:16, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I am glad to see that some of the excesses and erroneous links have been removed already. I also see that the link to Roachford has been refined by another just-established one-edit IP address, but we still do not future-gaze, even if Roachford does so in his comment made back in September 2010, while advertising Mewse as one of the under-billed (he headlining) in a gig at a London pub. Even if the Roachford comment was seen by some as a serious independent source, it is not part of “multiple... published works" about the subject - it is singular. And rub-off "notability" by association doesn’t make it for Wikipedia. There might be multiple important and serious disinterested published sources for the article that could support its various claims, and if there are and the article survives,  a copyedit and clean-out from an editor not close to Mewse, and not apparently set on promoting  Mewse, would be required. However, I can't see notability here yet. User:TeleComNasSprVen makes a very reasonable request - please refer to: WP:MUSIC to assess under which of the criteria Mewse can be identified.
 * Further, Adding in separate comments from multiple IP addresses, (as below and above), to give an appearance of a higher "vote" for your point of view does not influence the final decision. A decision on the article will be taken on the validity of arguments presented to an administrator, not on a head count. The points you raise below are covered in the comments and replies above. Acabashi (talk) 19:12, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep: Many people actively see Gemma Mewse and visit her shows, this constitutes a wikipedia article in its self as you have other artists on here that are not very notable per say. Her article should not be deleted as it is not a "fan" page but a well written article of her up and coming life so far. 94.169.166.176 (talk) 17:11, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep: article entry contains accurate, detailed and specific information about her career that is current. She meets the notability criteria for musicians and ensembles for winning best new song at the Emerging Talent Awards; and for her track Grounded being placed in rotation nationally on BBC1's Kissy Sell Out show and RTE Pulse's radio shows, (WP:MUS points 9 and 11 respectively.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.173.107 (talk) 18:35, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Gemma Mewse is a fantastic up and coming artist, she is very genuine and plays live shows all over the place therefore she is a real entity and should be recognized by Wikipedia as an artist featuring on radio 1 definitely constitutes a good enough reason for her to be recognized by such a large organization as Wikipedia which is built up by the users and as Gemma as a user I believe the website should honor her contribution to the growing knowledge of this website.92.236.92.4 (talk) 20:19, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep: Mewse has appeared as part of the Red Hill Kids in the Royal Variety Performance 2000. She has also performed on 'This Morning' Gloria Hunniford and 'Parkinson' with Micheal Crawford in 2001 promoting his "Tiger the Movie" Disney album.

a credited site that will pnly allow the posing if justified.
 * Mewse is credited and listed on IMDB 'lead roll' in a short film by Michele Wraight(IMDB).

promoted through Renegade - Music House.
 * Mewse released a 4 track E.P. in 2010 which was.


 * Has won or placed in a major music competition- Mewse also won 'Best Song 2010' with 'Numpty' to play on the 'Camden Crawl'.alongside featured artist such as 'Calvin Harris' 'Plan B' 'Eliza Dolittle' -


 * Her E.P. having been registered on 'ISRC' and 'PRS', which authenticates the album as an official release, proves that Mewse is considered a professional singer songwriter.


 * Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians- Mewse band members include Vinzenz Benjamin (Cheryl Cole, Sister Sledge, Paul Young, Mel B, Go West, Rod Stewart), Tim Sandiford (Dizee Rascal), Matt McDonough (Wishbone Ash), Kelli Leigh (Adele), James Nisbett (Kylie Minogue, Lily Allen, Vanessa Amorosi, Belinda Carlisle), Isaac Aryee (Womack and Womack, Will Young, Girls Aloud, Miss Dynamite, McFly, Estelle, Mis-Teeq, AFRIKA! AFRIKA!, Jamelia, Royal Philharmonic Orchestra), Deerail (Leona Lewis, Phil Collins, Mariah Carey).

I believe that Mewse's achievements to date comply with wikipedia's regulations Gary802 (talk) 14:22, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

link from last.fm re camden crawl http://livemusic.fm/band/gemma-mewse Link from gig reveiwer re camden crawl http://www.gigreviewer.com/gig-reviews/camden-crawl.html Link of semi short listed finalist Camden Crawl http://www.addictmusic.co.uk/news/camden-crawl-2010-announce-emerging-talent-awards-short-list/# link to review camden crawl http://www.rapidbeatpromotions.com/forum/showthread.php?s=4778e792bfbf7da2d6133cb354e7ea50&t=7040 link to Hop Farm Festival Eagles and Morrisey Headlining http://www.carling.com/music/festival/information/the_hop_farm/Gary802 (talk) 23:31, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The strange number of IP editors and single-purpose accounts appearing right on the scene coming from nowhere to try and save this article at just this precise moment makes me think that they may be some sort of meatpuppetry and inappropriate biased canvassing going on around here. Nevertheless, setting those concerns aside for the moment, it appears that we might be making some progress on the article after all. The first have been at least an assertion of notability, one of the central tenets and key policies of Wikipedia, that this article meets certain criteria of WP:MUSIC, points 9 and 11 respectively. However, we need harder data, especially in the form of urls and sources, to accurately verify the existence of this person, and to demonstrate the claims to notability presented above, because Verifiability is another key policy enforced by Wikipedia and the necessary second stage for keeping this article. Please point out to us the exact page (and not just in the relatively blank hyperlink above, which only contains other links) that would explicitly state in its wording &mdash; no, not even explicitly; at the very least imply &mdash; that she meets the criterion that you claim she does above, namely that she "Has won or placed in a major music competition" or "Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network". :| TelCo  NaSp  Ve :|  19:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * BBC Radio 1 link of 'Kissy sell out' http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00sd9sy


 * With regards to TelCo's comment about 'meat puppetry and canvasing' wikipedia suggests for the community to 'share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page' which is what we have invited people to do. Expressing an opinion in support of a page that has been nominated for deletion by a random volunteer wikipedia member, who seems to be 'policing'  pages based on personal bias, does not seem to violate wikipedia's policies.92.28.8.250 (talk) 16:03, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

@ Joe decker & company, well if thats the case you'll spend the rest of your life putting right and deleting pages from wiki. What amazes me there are people dying of starvation illness and poverty. Japan is in a mess, corruption and grief everywhere including our Parliament and you and your small minded group of web police are pathetic enough to go to such lengths,to delete a page .And no doubt you will come back to me about rules etc !!! like you've never driven over 30 or 70 mph and been righteous  through your lives,get a life you sad load of cretins do some good in the world life is hard enough without having to put up with crap from no bodies like you lot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.46.37 (talk) 21:21, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Unfortunately, most of the folks !voting here seem to be unfamiliar with Wikipedia policy, but after a search and a review of the materials here, I still see no reliable sources providing significant coverage to meet notability under WP:GNG, and the person who suggests notability under WP:MUSIC's rotation clause seems to not understand the meaning of the word rotation in this context. I care less about the "notability" of this artist in the abstract than I do about verifiability, and as a BLP sourced with unreliable, or if I'm generous passing-but-reliable sources, I really don't have a choice under WP:V and WP:BLP than to argue for deletion. As always, additional reliable, secondary sources are welcomed. --joe deckertalk to me 19:42, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Note to Admin - If the decision is delete, the entry at 1992 in the United Kingdom is by one of that article's regular contributors. Dru of Id (talk) 07:44, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment- I have gone through all 125 entries my "Gemma Mewse" search pulled up; she was played once on the BBC, the other 3 Mewse entries there are 'Bob'. She has played at various events but only inlist mentions/website refs. Many entries are mirrors of WP, her site, facebook, tumblr, etc. Dru of Id (talk) 08:15, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Gemma Mewse Performs at Hopfarm festival 2011- [] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.175.0 (talk) 15:10, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep: http://www.hopfarmfestival.com/media/18265/hopfarmwebsiteposter_versiond.pdf This has to mean something!!92.24.172.131 (talk) 20:01, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

talk:92.24.174.175|talk]]) 09:48, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep: And this: http://open.spotify.com/album/1jTDXiM6KSCZOjnoxCKwdS92.24.174.175 ([[User


 * Delete Per nom. Fails WP:MUSIC. I see looks of anonymous comments of her a an up and coming artist, when and if she arrives then an article is justified. GcSwRhIc (talk) 13:04, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - while I am not as concerned about primary sources as the nominee, I am worried about the subject not meeting WP:MUSICBIO. This also runs afoul of both WP:HAMMER and WP:UPANDCOMING.  I'd be happy to allow someone to re-create the article when and if she makes the big time.  Wikipedia is not a venue or forum to publicize anybody.  That's what Myspace and facebook are for. Bearian (talk) 21:18, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Sorry to all those voting to keep this article, but Mewse falls short of all the criteria at WP:MUSICBIO, as well as the general notability guideline (insufficient coverage in independent, reliable sources). But honestly, I think Mewse will be notable enough for a Wikipedia entry soon enough; as has been demonstrated in this discussion, her talents have been endorsed by Andrew Roachford, she's played several festivals already, and her debut album will be dropping soon. Until then, patience please. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 00:48, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Honestly fella, 'Big Time' is a very subjective thing to be saying since for people in third world countries hitting the big time would be having something to eat for a month, here in this country that's pretty much nothing. apply it to the music industry, for someone who had no fans and no support to come and get as much support as Gemma has, that's pretty big. and given the term big time, I believe that what she has achieved is 'big' and the time is 13:22. That big achievement she has has followed through until now and will for ages, that's the big time fella. All the best. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Forgetyou (talk • contribs) 12:23, 12 April 2011 (UTC)