Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/George Arbuthnot, 1st of Elderslie


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was  d elete. - Mailer Diablo 05:43, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

George Arbuthnot, 1st of Elderslie

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No notability whatsoever. This belongs like so many of the other Category:Arbuthnot family on a family history site not on Wikipedia. Please note he is not the 1st anything of Elderslie Giano 10:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete wikipedia is not a genealogical site Hut 8.5 15:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete wikipedia is not a genealogical site Pete.Hurd 16:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Civil servant lacks sources to satisfy WP:BIO. Edison 20:34, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete unless clarified If he was deputy governor of Ceylon, I think that would be sufficiently note-worthy; I think that WP precedent supports Vice Presidents, Lieutenant Governors General, Lieutenant Governors of US States meet WP:N. But it's hard to tell if that's the case as he's termed the deputy governor of the governor; I don't know what that means in the government of Ceylon at the time, if anything, but seems merely a go-fer job unless it's "of Ceylon". Carlossuarez46 21:49, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Ada Jane Arbuthnot's "Memories" has a huge entry for him; she devotes thirty pages of her book to quotations from his letters and diaries. He seems to have been content to be a reasonably prosperous guy and raise ten children. He turned down a chance to run for Parliament. He writes reasonably entertaining letters; that's the most that can be said. EdJohnston 23:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep, the number two administrator of an important province of British India. Seriously, people, I've said this before: shut down kittybrewster's project, sure, but some of these people are notable. Indian colonial civil servants are almost always notable; they had an extraordinary amount of power. Hornplease 06:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Are we sure that's what he was? I would keep if he was really the 2nd in command of Ceylon, but the deputy governor to the governor may have a meaning no different that a deputy to a sherrif has in the US (e.g., lots of deputies for each sherrif, not the #2 but one of a multitude). Unless some RS can be found to support the construct you assume, I'm still unconvinced. Carlossuarez46 19:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That isn't the case in Commonwealth countries. I can't get you a reference at the moment, but if you look at the page on, say, the Deputy Governor-General of Canada, as well as the discussion on the Governor-General page, you'll see that it isn't usual.Hornplease 01:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete or merge. there is nothing notable mentioned in this article to justify its retention in WP, maybe it could be merged into a general article on the Arbuthnot family, could anyone explain what the title '1st of Elderslie' refers to as there is no mention in the article of how it come about or what its standing has.--padraig3uk 08:58, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The phrase '1st of Elderslie' is part of the system used in Ada Jane Arbuthnot's genealogy book to identify members of the family. Since the same first names occur repeatedly, she needs 'epithets' to distinguish similarly-named people. '1st of Elderslie' was the guy who originally purchased the Elderslie house (see p.359), and later generations also lived there. (There was also a George, '2nd of Elderslie'). Her book can be downloaded as a 99 meg PDF file from kittybrewster.com. EdJohnston 13:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete: The man made it to deputy governor to a red link.  Blue that link, and then mention all the deputies that person had in that article, or, better yet, establish an article on Governor General of Ceylon and list the names of those who served, but I can't see justifying more breeding stock memorials because of civil service positions they filled.  This is made more the point because he appears to have gone off to the Raj and served fairly briefly, and there is no indication that he did something in that position that caused an historical ripple.  I just can't see the balance working out.  Geogre 12:12, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I don't know what to say in reply. We haven't a clue whether he caused a ripple or not, but these were extraordinarily powerful men. I don't think we can support deletion just because the governors of Ceylon aren't yet listed. Really! WP's still growing, especially third-world-related material. See WP:BIAS. Hornplease 01:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: Careful with the "bias" allegation, there.  I should be delighted if we had the information on what was done by the various members of the Raj who made a difference, but, barring that, we cannot honor the titles of that regime by saying that such an appointment indicates merit.  I would be stunned to see anyone genuinely concerned with, or aware of, post-colonial theory wanting to say, "Gosh, deputy governor of Ceylon? Must be important."  I rather thought that we did not regard the protectors of the people with such credulity anymore.  Geogre 01:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - did he actually do anything of note? -- ALoan (Talk) 14:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete as per Geogre but without prejudice if a well-sourced article indicatign that the man had significant impact or other notability is created in future. DES (talk) 16:43, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Week keep One non-trivial reliable source listed in the article. Could do with more sources, but I dare say they exist somewhere. JulesH 17:30, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete--if he were Governor (or Governor-General) of Ceylon then he would have an article as for any other head of state or head of government. I'd as soon merge the PMs into one article as the GGs of Ceylon. But our guy here was deputy to the Governor--and its not specific about whether he was perhaps actually Deputy Governor if there was such a position, or whether it was some lesser rank on his staff.  If it turns out he did anything notable in Ceylon, that would justify an article. DGG 02:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge (And of course redirect his name) into Arbuthnot & Co. This bank formed from Latour & Co later became Arbuthnot De Monte & Co which was one of at least 3 large banks to collapse in 1906. His work also led to numerous offshoots of Arbuthnot & Co: Gillanders, Arbuthnot & Co., of Calcutta; Ewart, Latham & Co., of Bombay; Arbuthnot, Latham & Co., of London; Ogilvy, Gillanders & Co., and Arbuthnot, Ewart & Co., of Liverpool; and Gladstone, Latham & Co., of Manchester. John Alves Arbuthnot worked for his uncle George in Arbuthnot & Co. before forming Arbuthnot Latham & Co with Alfred Latham (a governor of the Bank of England)in London. This family's business practices and societal connections could be compared favorably to the Rothchilds. If there were less blind deletions and more merges on the subject of Arbuthnot's, one would see the significant connections, particularly in the field of Merchant Banking. I'll grant that expansions need to be made, but deletion does not reasonably lead to expansion or the inclusion of multiple editors in contributing. Aspenocean 17:43, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I note that your vote is 'Merge'. You seem to have a lot of specific information, but it is not yet reflected in the Arbuthnot & Co article. Are you willing to add your data there? EdJohnston 19:18, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete Yet more ArbuthNotNotable genealogy spam. You would not want me to start listing all the Morgans! Or, say, the Smiths! DewiMorgan 20:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.