Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/George Gorchoff


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Daniel (talk) 09:40, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

George Gorchoff

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Non-notable person, fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO. He is mentioned in the cited source, but only in the appendix, and only in passing. The sum total of what the source says about him is that he was "an asset of the New York GRU in 1943" and that his codename was "Gustav." So while he may have been a Soviet Spy, and his name may have been mentioned (once, and once only) in the Venona cables, he is not the subject of significant coverage in reliable sources, and is therefore not notable. Fyddlestix (talk) 05:36, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Fyddlestix (talk) 05:38, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Fyddlestix (talk) 05:38, 16 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Was he an "asset" of the GRU, or did he "work for" the GRU, or was he an active espionage agent? A brief mention in a cable message is thin soup. The U.S. and the Soviet Union were active allies in 1943. It seems that Gorchoff was an official in the International Association of Machinists, a left wing trade union, and may have had legitimate reasons for communicating with the Soviets during the joint fight against Hitler. The Soviet spy handlers may have had an interest in exaggerating the importance of their "assets". Or maybe he was a genuine spy. I don't know. But a passing mention in an advocacy source like this is entirely inadequate to support a Wikipedia biography. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  08:20, 16 August 2015 (UTC)|
 * Delete per the above. No significant coverage in reliable sources. I imagine that there is a bit more of this in List of Americans in the Venona papers that was split off from Venona project ten years ago. - Location (talk) 23:58, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * yeah, that's how I found it - there's a discussion about that list article here at RS/N if anyone's interested. I am slowly working my way through the list and plan to send at least a few more of the articles linked to AFD. Fyddlestix (talk) 01:26, 17 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment: see publications mentioning "George Gorchoff"; and publications using Gustav. FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  02:04, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah I found all of those - they appeared to all be passing mentions of the article subject, or primary sources (transcripts of union meetings). I looked, but did not see any sign of significant coverage of this person in third party, reliable sources. Fyddlestix (talk) 02:12, 17 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom PriceDL (talk) 02:07, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Fyddlestix (talk) 05:02, 17 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - seems to be very solid evidence he was a spy, and it appears there was only ever one George Gorchoff, probably of Russian descent. (Gorchoff would not have been his family's surname as Gorchov is not a name, so it was probably shorted from something like Gorchovsky, thus the rarity.) I added a second source about who his handler was. I'm going to try to find more info. —Мандичка YO 😜 08:04, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Being a spy doesn't make someone notable, the level of coverage they get in RS does. WP:GNG and WP:BIO make it clear that the person needs to be the subject of significant coverage in RS, which "addresses the topic directly and in detail," and is "more than a trivial mention." I don't think either of the sources currently cited in the article fulfill that requirement. Fyddlestix (talk) 16:15, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Also I'm pretty skeptical that you'll find much else - I did look into this pretty carefully, and as far as I could tell any secondary sources which mention Gorchoff do so on the basis of this Venona intercept, which, again, mentions him only in passing. Fyddlestix (talk) 16:20, 17 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.