Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Geraint Watkins


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. –MuZemike 23:59, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Geraint Watkins

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Asserts notability, but I can't find a SINGLE non-trivial source. Literally everything I found just says something like "with Geraint Watkins on keyboard" despite the huge amounts of hits that say that. While he has multiple albums, only one was on a notable label. A huge repertoire ≠ notability if there are no sources, and the fact that his Allmusic entry is blank is a red flag. I also propose that The Balham Alligators be deleted since the last AFD suggested a merge there. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 18:20, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep I am editing on a smart phone so can't cut and paste urls at the moment. George Martin's biographical sketch in Making Music is already referenced in the article.  Billboard mentioned his "widely respected career" November 29, 2008.  Eric Clapton and Derek Watts called him a "keyboard virtuoso" in Country Boy, their biography of Albert Lee. New York magazine called him "an understated legend in his own right" in 2004.  Craig Morrison described him as a member of a "hot band of session players"  in Go cat go!, his biography of Cat Stevens.  In 1988, Living Blues magazine mentioned him as one of two musicians who "deserve special mention" following a festival performance.  Peter Mills described "imperceptibly consistent notes from Geraint Watkins on the Hammond" in Hymns to Silence, his biography of Van Morrison. He's notable. Cullen328 (talk) 19:40, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * And tell me how getting lip service from higher ups = notability? Oh wait, IT FREAKING DOESN'T. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 21:54, 21 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. Here's one example of more substantial coverage, there are reviews of one of his albums here and here, and playing in the bands of all those highly notable artists for which he gets lots of brief mentions makes him notable.--Michig (talk) 20:56, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Again, notability is not inherited, but the Billboard and Allmusic reviews suggets possible notability. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 21:54, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Nothing to do with inheritance, we have a guideline for notability that indicates that a musician that has been a member of two or more notable bands is sufficiently notable for an article. Those reviews don't suggest possible notability, they mean that he is notable.--Michig (talk) 06:04, 22 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep; - Not sure the nominator is gonna be wowwed by the source, but if I were writing a bio of this person I would be on it. ROCKABILLY HALL OF FAME. I know the nominator doesn't like raw Google hits either, but with a haystack of over 71,000 hits for the unusual name "Geraint Watkins," you know there are a few more needles out there. That's a BIG haystack... Carrite (talk) 01:20, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's a review of Watkins sharing the bill with Nick Lowe in the MILWAUKEE EXPRESS: "When was the last time the opening act recieved an encore? Geraint Watkins opened with a solo set showcasing a style reminiscent of Fats Domino. From rollicking R&B to complex jazz chords, his originals were ripe with a sense of laid back experience. A longtime recording artist (he has worked with Van Morrison and Paul McCartney), Watkins’ nuanced playing and soulful vocals could have been pure Americana until his between song banter displayed a thick Welsh brogue. Watkins took to dramatically miming “Out Demons, Out!” and then recited the first lines of “Johnny B. Goode” before re-imagining the tune as a writ by Lieber and Stoller with a Thelonius Monk solo tossed in—an amazing take on a song that has become part of rock ’n’ roll’s collective consciousness. Needless to say, Watkins is a gem." Carrite (talk) 01:26, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * He's one of the friends of Carl Perkins and Friends on the 1985 Blue Suede Shoes: A Rockabilly Session. The drummer? Ringo Starr. Guitarists? George Harrison, Eric Clapton, Earl Slick, Dave Edmunds. We're not talking about Sylvia Starr or Heidi Harrison or Conrad Clapton or Sally Slick or Elmo Edmunds on a WP:NOTINHERITED beef here, this is a musician playing at that level. This is indicative that this guy is a pretty big fish in the entertainment industry even if he's not a household name... Carrite (talk) 01:34, 22 June 2011 (UTC) Last edit: Carrite (talk) 01:38, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * BILLBOARD MAGAZINE confirms that Watkins is a member of Nick Lowe and the Impossibles. Carrite (talk) 01:44, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * BBC MUSIC has a little biography of him. They invite people to "Read more at Wikipedia" with a link, by the way. Whoops, that's a Wikipedia mirror. Carrite (talk) 01:45, 22 June 2011 (UTC) Last edit: Carrite (talk) 02:50, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * BILL WYMAN has a little bio up on the net. Carrite (talk) 01:49, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 01:55, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Watkins has been the subject of an interview in the MAY 1998 ISSUE OF KEYBOARD PLAYER MAGAZINE. This is a national circulation, glossy mag found in music stores around the world. (Paywalled). Carrite (talk) 01:57, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The nominator will hate this, but it might come in useful if anyone wants to work more on the piece. PRESS KIT BIO OF WATKINS. Carrite (talk) 01:59, 22 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - The bottom line is that if this were a rock and roll dude or a country music dude or a hip hop dude or a pop dude, he'd be miles over the notability bar at a cursory glance. But he's a very big fish in the small pond of rockabilly, so we've gotta bump and grind over this. Still, 71,000 Google hits on an obscure name is seldom wrong, as the above amply demonstrates. Carrite (talk) 02:07, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I am well aware that notability is not inherited. However, a book edited by legendary rock producer George Martin has to be considered a reliable source on rock music, and when an expert like Martin chooses to profile a musician, that goes a long way toward notability.  As our Wikipedia article accurately states, Martin "is considered one of the greatest record producers of all time, with 30 number one hit singles in the UK and 23 number one hits in the USA."  Here's a quote from Martin's Making music: the guide to writing, performing & recording, published in 1983: "Geraint Watkins was born in South Wales and played in bands there before moving to London where he joined various groups, including Juice on the Loose, on the pub circuit. In 1978 he recorded a solo album produced by Andy Fairweather Low. From 1979-1981 he toured and played with Shakin' Stevens; since then he has been working with Dave Edmunds."  Note that this book was published 28 years ago, and the references found by Carrite and Michig also demonstrate his ongoing notability over the decades.  Admittedly, he is not a household name, but he is a session musician with a long and illustrious career, and is more than worthy of a Wikipedia article in my opinion, which is informed by our policies and guidelines. Cullen328 (talk) 05:13, 22 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment. There is also plenty of coverage of The Balham Alligators around, including an entry for the band in The Encyclopedia of Popular Music and The Virgin Encyclopedia of Country Music.--Michig (talk) 06:04, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. Given many of the above examples, subject satisfies WP:GNG and WP:MUSIC. I don't mean to repeat all the sources, but the coverage/reviews for his 2004 album - - alone are sufficient to meet our guidelines. Another suggestion of notability just to throw out there: his 2008 album made the year-end "Best of" lists of two Billboard contributors/editors .   Gongshow  Talk 23:59, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.