Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ginger Alden


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to Elvis_Presley. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:22, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Ginger Alden

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Famous for being Elvis's fiance at the time of his death. Only reliable sources about her are just about that. LADY LOTUS • TALK 20:49, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Elvis Presley. You can't inherit notability (or anything else, in her case - Elvis left her nothing), and her acting career is too limited. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:15, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete and redirect per Clarityfiend. Subject fails WP:NACTOR and sources fail WP:RS. See also WP:NRV. Sole claim to notability appears to be her relationship with Elvis which would fall under WP:BLP1E. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:30, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:44, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:44, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete Some fiancées get notable for such, or with that as their spring board, but she didn't.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:54, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 *  Keep  and Redirect to http://arpt.home.xs4all.nl/tcbjewel.html <(Lowell Hays Elvis's jeweler website confirms engagement) Ginger Alden a very important person in Elvis Presley's life. Elvis's fiancee and person who found his body on August 16, 1977. Ginger Alden is a Member of AFTRA & SAG, did numerous commercials, USA and Europe Modeling career. Made 2 movies. "Living Legend" and "Lady Gray" for Earl Owensby Studios/Pacific International Distributors, various tv series as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Juliesong (talk • contribs) 23:22, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Juliesong
 *  Keep and Redirect  GoodHousekeeping Interview with Vernon Presley January 1978 "My Son Elvis" by Nancy Anderson "confirms" his son Elvis's "engagement" to Ginger Alden. " This is the love I have been searching for Elvis said, "I want more children, a son, and I want Ginger to be my children's Mother. After that Ginger and Elvis came over to show me her engagement ring." ==References==
 * Striking duplicate vote by user:Juliesong You may comment as often as you wish, but we !vote only once. Also please remember to sign your name to edits using four of the squiggly lines called tildes. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:51, 21 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Ginger Alden is also the author of "Elvis and Ginger: Elvis Presley's Fiancée and Last Love Finally Tells Her Story". Juliesong

Juliesong — Preceding undated comment added 03:17, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Juliesong. As you are new here I don't want to discourage your efforts to improve the article but I am going to strongly encourage you to read our notability guidelines. The section likely to be of most interest to you for now is WP:BIO. You may also wish to look at WP:GNG. And with respect to some of your most recent edits please also note that Wikipedia is not a means of promotion. Best regards -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:29, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Orientem.

Ginger Alden was a well known actress and model, "known for her role on the daytime soap opera Capitol as Meredith Ross". She was also featured in a number of television shows including "Hollywood Beat" and "Life Goes On".Also, the starring roles in 2 movies; Living Legend and Lady Grey by Independent Producer Earl Owensby and distributed by Pacific International. She also attended Memphis College of Art where her artwork was displayed by the college. Juliesong

A spokeswoman for the "Claridge Hotel and Casino" in Atlantic City. Ginger also starred in more than 100 television commercials and had a successful modeling career for such products like Clairol, Vidal Sassoon, Maybelline, Aziza, Avon, and Virginia Slims and was seen on covers of numerous magazines. Ginger Alden was also Miss MidSouth of 1976 and first runner up to Miss Tennessee Universe. Juliesong
 * I have the unhappy feeling that you have not bothered to read any of the linked notability guides. And I also take note that almost all of the stuff you have been adding is completely unsourced. Please make sure you are citing reliable and verifiable sources for anything you are adding to the article. Unsourced claims are usually deleted out of hand. I will give you a little time to dig up sources that meet Wikipedia standards, but again, I STRONGLY urge you to read the guidelines I have linked. Most of what you have added is not going to fly as it stands. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:40, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

I am trying my best for you Orientem and am very sick with a cold. Trying to understand all of this posting tags, etc.. I hope I can work on this tomorrow. Feel too bad tonight.Juliesong

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Alden What needs to be done to that page to keep it from being deleted? Everything is verified on that page from "reliable sources" with external links added for further verification for movies and television shows, etc., Ginger Alden appeared in.


 * Comment I'm not sure Juliesong understands what reliable sources are or how to properly write an article, they add things that sound like a fan site and don't use proper tone. LADY LOTUS • TALK 11:16, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

"Lady Lotus" has "an agenda". She does not like Ginger Alden as why report deletion of Ginger Alden's wilkipedia page as it has been on Wilkipedia for several years now. Others connected to Elvis Presley such as Jerry Schilling and Joe Espostio (to name a few) are actively on Wikipedia and do not have "reliable sources" cited on their Wikipedia pages. Again, See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Alden What needs to be done to that page to keep it from being deleted? There is verification on her page from "reliable sources" with external links added for further verification for movies and television shows, etc., Ginger Alden appeared in after Elvis Presley's death. I am still very sick with bronchitis Orientem and trying to get better with meds. Juliesong Hi Orientem, I am sick with a bad case of bronchitis and trying to do the right thing here.Juliesong
 * Caution Julie and anyone else concerned, please refrain from personal attacks on other editors. Some recent comments do not appear to be in keeping with WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL. Uncivil commentary can result in Administrative sanctions. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:50, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment Julie, I have posted links to the relevant policy guidelines. Your comments and edits on here strongly suggest that you have not read them. I am not sure what else can be done. Leading horses to water and so on.... -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:55, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Elvis Presley or Delete as she fails GNG. No significant independent coverage from reliable third party sources. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 22:23, 23 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Significant independent coverage is cited in The Memphis Commercial Appeal newspaper along with "unbiased journalism" of Elvis Presley's death and Ginger Alden by Commercial Appeal reporter Lawrence Buser regarding Ginger Alden, Elvis's fiancee. See http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/1977/aug/19/worlds-at-standstill-for-elvis-fiancee/?print=1 Juliesong


 * The paper you linked does give significant coverage. However, we need multiple reliable third-party sources that give her significant coverage for her to be notable. Here's what I see when looking into the references and links:
 * ref#1 is not showing anything on her.
 * ref#2 is an interview that only briefly talks about Ginger.
 * ref#3 is a video that only briefly shows her. No coverage.
 * ref#4 is a primary source
 * external link#1 is IMDb, which is not considered a reliable source.
 * external link#2 is a profile with two film listings. No coverage.
 * Unless more significant coverage is available, she still fails WP:GNG. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 02:45, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Reference 1, is an article that speaks of Ginger Alden as you have to read down the article. I am really bewildered as to how much more significant coverage you need regarding Ginger Alden as the internet and books are filled with facts and coverage that I have been trying to post here and obviously to no avail am I getting anywhere which I do not understand. Juliesong — Preceding undated comment added 03:01, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't see an article on her there, only a Google+ link on Memphis College of Art. You've probably got the wrong URL there. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 03:05, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

I was showing the college that Ginger Alden attended as she attended that college in the early 70's. Juliesong http://elvisdecoded.blogspot.com/2011/06/81677-ginger-alden-revisited.html regarding Ginger Alden by Patrick Lacy a researcher regarding the facts of Elvis Presley. Juliesong — Preceding undated comment added 03:22, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Keep. Only second woman Elvis was ever engaged to. Elvis's TCB ring is probably one of his most famous pieces of jewelry. Elvis called his jeweler Lowell Hayes late at night, wanting to have an engagement ring made for Ginger Alden. They took the big diamond out of the TCB ring and put it into Ginger's ring which we understand she still has after all these many years. >pg 195 of Graceland the Living Legacy of Elvis PresleyElwood48 — Elwood48 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * It's not like Ginger Alden was engaged to John Doe. She was engaged to Elvis Presley and that has already been established and confirmed by Elvis's father Vernon and Elvis's jeweler Lowell Hays. Ginger was not only Presley's fiancee but the person who found his body on August 16, 1977 which was a huge event.Juliesong


 * Being engaged/related to a famous person doesn't automatically make one notable, just saying. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 05:19, 24 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Being notable has nothing to do with whether or not a company publishes one's book. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 05:36, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Ginger Alden had a very successful career in acting and modeling and is now an author and was notable enough to have the biggest publishing company to publish her upcoming book. Juliesong

Ginger Alden was also awarded "The Star of Tomorrow" award by N.A.T.O. in 1982. https://www.facebook.com/fansofelvis79/posts/590906307592121 Juliesong
 * Facebook fan pages are not reliable sources. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 05:58, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

It is true however. Juliesong
 * See WP:BIT. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 06:07, 24 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete - Being the last woman to have sex with the Elvis isn't really a notable or distinctive event in world history. Since she did nothing of great noteworthiness before or after his death, this falls into WP:BLP1E and/or WP:ONEEVENT territory as far as I'm concerned.  The coverage stems only from her placement as "Elvis' last girl".  If someone wants to redirect it to a sub-section of the main Elvis article, fine, but it should be deleted first. Tarc (talk) 16:57, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete and redirect Notability isn't through blood or relationships. No independent notability outside of her engagement. OhNo itsJamie Talk 17:42, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep There are plenty of sources, she easily passes the GNG. Yes, notability isn't inherited--so she's not automatically notable for her relationship--but there is plenty of coverage of this person in books, News ,  and plenty of others including coverage of her book release.  Yeah, she easily meets the WP:GNG. Hobit (talk) 17:55, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * This gives her medium-level coverage at best, and the others are generally not third-party sources. Primary sources do not count as notable coverage. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 18:13, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Comments All of those mentions are in connection with something about Elvis. I don't see any independent non-trivial coverage whatsoever. OhNo itsJamie  Talk 19:07, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Neither do I, Jamie. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 19:08, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * GAHHHH. So?  Shall we look for coverage of baseball players outside of baseball?  She's gotten a large amount of coverage.  She's written a book and that book has gotten coverage (and reviews etc.).  An essay on notability does not override the GNG.  She meets our inclusion guidelines. Her book likely meets our inclusion guidelines for goodness sake. Hobit (talk) 10:01, 25 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete and redirect to Elvis Presley, as per other editors. Article is inadequately sourced and does not establish general notability.  Robert McClenon (talk) 19:09, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Other than meeting the GNG? Hobit (talk) 10:07, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete & Redirect as per above - No indication of notability. - →Davey 2010→ →Talk to me!→  20:43, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Other than WP:GNG which is our definition of notability? Hobit (talk) 10:07, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Elvis Presley, per WP:BLP1E.  Mini  apolis  21:00, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Because being the person to find Elvis dead--an event extremely well covered both at the time and many many years after--is "not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented."? Heck, she's been accused in the media of being responsible for his death (significant) and it's clearly been well covered. Hobit (talk) 10:07, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep, per Hobit; plenty of coverage. As is often the case, people confuse notability with celebrity. I wouldn't object to a redirect, as long as it's not this "delete and redirect" nonsense. Delete-and-redirect should be done in cases of egregious problems, none of which exist here. If this article is redirected, there is no valid reason that the history should not be preserved. Joefromrandb (talk) 06:56, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * We don't give articles to people would would otherwise be unknown save for one event, you and Hobit both know that. Arguments of "it's reliably sourced!" do not overcome that, and are thus invalidated. Tarc (talk) 12:24, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Please don't assume what I know, Tarc. You wind up giving me way too much credit; I'm really not that bright. But I'm glad you've shed the sheep's clothing you were wearing for a few months; makes things much easier to sort out. "Invalidating" arguments that don't exist? Be careful; the last time you tried that approach at AfD, we wound up with a Featured Article! Joefromrandb (talk) 06:44, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The one event being what? Finding Elvis's body?  Being accused of responsibility for his death?  Being engaged to him?  Writing a book that saw coverage in RSes some 40 years later?  This is no one-event.  And BLP1E doesn't apply to people who aren't trying to maintain a low profile.  By writing a book about herself, she can't be said to be doing that.  Hobit (talk) 02:36, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The "one event" I imagine covering her affiliations with Elvis. The book is a primary source, which cannot be used to establish her notability. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 02:46, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I have never subscribed/ascribed, whatever the apt word is, to the inclusionist notion that "I want attention" satisfies the "low-profile individual" aspect of BLP1E, otherwise we'd have an article on every D-list 4th-rate attention whore actor in the country. The "1E" is the overall notoriety of being the last woman that Elvis banged; if all of her "fame" as it were stems from being that, then she doesn't get an article.  At best, her name redirects to Elvis. Tarc (talk) 02:57, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * If every The point of BLP1E is to keep low-profile individuals from being forced to be non-low-profile. That's why it was created.  If every "D-list 4th-rate attention whore"  meets the GNG and our policies, then yeah, we should have an article (WP:PAPER). In any case, I don't think the subject of this discussion is a D-list 4th-rate attention whore. Hobit (talk) 11:56, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It was pointed out that that was a insensitive wording on my part, so I have stricken it. You're just as familiar as I as to how much of the project is littered with bios on these kinds of people, and where we draw the line to keep the true riff-raff at bay.  The JetBlue flight attendant made a much larger pitch for glory than this woman ever did.  Al Gore III was in the news almost weekly for a stretch as he came under the "look what bad stuff the spoiled rich kid is doing now" gaze of the tabloids.  Think about the breadth and depth of what we can say about this woman; she was there when Elvis died, and spends some time talking about being there when Elvis died.  s that truly notable?  Encyclopedic?  Can it be covered within the context of the main Presley article, or perhaps Death of Elvis Presley (which I am rather shocked to see is itself just a redirect atm). Tarc (talk) 13:22, 27 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep, per Hobit and Joefromrandb. -- do ncr  am  03:23, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.