Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Giovanni Zelko


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. This was a close call, especially due to the indie awards mentioned. However, the awards don't count as major awards per Wikipedia's rules, and the consensus seems to be that the coverage necessary to write an article just isn't there. If more sources appear in the future then this can be recreated. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 05:39, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Giovanni Zelko

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Non-notable (as yet, anyway) figure. IMDb is a major source; others are pretty darned obscure. At this point, see WP:NOTYET. Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  22:37, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Weak delete I put hours into trying to fix the article, and I agree. The director's main movie, "The Algerian", is probably notable.  I created an empty stub at The Algerian (movie). John Nagle (talk) 00:29, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Well... the only thing is that creating a stub in this instance is possibly premature- if there's no coverage or notability for the director then it's possibly likely that the film itself is not notable either. Usually when looking for sources the reviews and whatnot for the director's work will pop up. I'll see what I can find, but you may have just created an article that will have to inevitably be deleted and run through AfD as well. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   05:04, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:47, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:47, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * You may be right. The movie at least has some references. The director/author/producer, not so much. John Nagle (talk) 05:29, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I've redirected the film's article to the director's article. The problem here is that while the film had a few more references, none of them are in places that Wikipedia would consider to be reliable- which is what we ultimately need here. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   05:32, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I would have done that in the other direction, redirecting the person to the film. The film has won some awards, and although some of the awards were exaggerated in the article, some of them did check out. John Nagle (talk) 18:01, 25 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. I've cleaned the article some and others can find the original article version here. The problem here is that ultimately there just isn't any true coverage for this guy. The article asserts that he got a review from the Washington Post, but I can't find hide nor hair of the actual review- all we have is a PDF cut/paste of the review. If this had linked to the page or had a picture of the newspaper article then it may have been usable, but offhand I can say that the PDF is not usable because it can't be verified. There are awards, but none of them are really all that particularly noteworthy when it comes down to it. As far as I can see, this is just WP:TOOSOON for an entry. I've redirected the film article for The Algerian to the director's page since there wasn't anything to show that the film was/is particularly noteworthy either. There aren't any reviews out there, at least none that would qualify as a RS, and the awards aren't really notable either per Wikipedia's rules, so there's no reason why the film should have an article either, even if (and especially if) this page is deleted. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   05:32, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep Keep please,I received a message from a user concerning a conflict of interest with my creation of the Wikipedia page for Giovanni Zelko which I would like to clarify. I am not Giovanni Zelko nor am I associated with him professionally or personally. I've been to two screenings of his latest film, The Algerian while I was working for a film festival, DFFLA, where his film was featured during as our opening night piece, and the other occasion, while I was in NY this past summer. Since then I've become a fan of his, and I've been able to access a lot of his work from public content on YouTube and the director's personal website. Zelko has a really large body of work which I thought was worth recognizing, (especially after I read an article about him and his film in the Huff post), and regarding that he's published books, made films, and works with Harry Lennix. There was some buzz around him that I thought would grow, so I thought it would do the filmmaker justice to create a page for him. All of the info I found is available through his personal website and The Algerian movie website, primary, but between those two it was pretty in depth for me to make a good size article, but I see the issue since no one else contributed. But I'm also new to wiki, and zelko's article is my first so I wasn't too clear about the guidelines for single users. I thought if all the info is in the public domain then its usable, granted the sources are legitimate. I did a lot, really so much, research on the director over the course of many days and I'm confident that the page is worth it, and I really would like to have something to show for all the work I did, even though it needed major editing because of wiki's guidelines.Folasade.aremu (talk) 07:13, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The problem is that you have to show notability in the here and now by providing coverage in reliable sources like newspapers and the like. Most of the sources you have weren't in places that would be considered WP:RS, as they were WP:PRIMARY (meaning that they were created by Zelko himself or someone affiliated with him) or in places that would be seen as self-published sources (WP:SPS) or otherwise unusable as reliable sources. While we do have to worry about verifying information to ensure its accuracy, the biggest issue right here and now is whether or not Zelko is ultimately notable enough for an article. We can't bank on him receiving more coverage in the future, because that's considered to be a WP:CRYSTAL ball/prediction sort of thing. From what I've seen it seems likely that he'll gain more coverage, but it's not a guarantee and I've seen people start off with a fairly strong, promising start only to never gain the amount of coverage necessary to merit an article. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   10:46, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Keep. I don't see anything wrong with the sources provided. Satisfies WP:GNG. ---Mr. Guye (talk) 01:58, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 03:31, 2 December 2014 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Weak Delete - Agree with nom. Looks WP:Too soon. Not clear that it meets WP:DIRECTOR or WP:GNG. NickCT (talk) 15:34, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - I've found other sources online like a mention by LA Times and this one. His works appear to be mainstream in some fashion, which would qualify him as an artist. Jeremy112233 ( Lettuce-jibber-jabber? ) 04:32, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 19:08, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep First, some of the references being dug up in defense of the article are mere mentions, so I would advise against adding them to pad the references: it's better to stick to the ones that are substantial. The reason for my weak keep is that he has either been nominated for or has won some minor awards at indie festivals. This could be the start of something big, or it could be a flash in the pan. We can revisit this page in the future and make a more informed decision. LaMona (talk) 04:01, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: Sorry, but 0+0+0 still equals zero.  Being nominated for minor awards doesn't cut it: you have to be nominated for really significant ones, like an Academy Award or a BAFTA.  It doesn't matter how many casual mentions people find: you need "significant coverage" of the subject, and that just isn't there.  WP:CRYSTAL forbids any consideration of what the guy "might" do in the future -- he could get hit by a bus tomorrow, and he wouldn't do those things, which is a reason why WP:CRYSTAL is there to begin with.  And no, you don't keep a non-qualifying article to see if he'll be notable in the future.  You delete it, and then he qualifies for an article if he becomes notable, in the future.  Nha Trang  Allons! 21:24, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.