Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Glayton Modise


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. sufficient consensus after relisting  DGG ( talk ) 18:10, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Glayton Modise

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Attempted to redirect, which kept being reverted with, quite honestly, nonsensical explanations. No indication that this person passes notability criteria. Searches did not turn up enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to show he passes WP:GNG.  Onel 5969  TT me 17:56, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Frederick Samuel Modise per WP:BLP and WP:GNG. The Modise, Sr. article does at least have a few more sources. This is Paul (talk) 18:14, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Frederick Samuel Modise, where this person is already mentioned. There is nothing to establish independent notability.  Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:55, 12 March 2017 (UTC) Update to Keep based on sources added, especially by . Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:22, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment: I went to the Frederick Samuel Modise article, and was almost ready to support a redirect or merge, but I don't understand the relationship between "Glayton" and "Frederick": Are they father and son? Neither article says!96.59.183.125 (talk) 01:02, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * It's not well written, but the Glayton article makes reference to Frederick as: "...the father of only son Glayton Modise." Glayton thus appears to be the son.  Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 01:06, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * You are right -- I found this quote: "Bishop Glayton Modise, who has died in Johannesburg at the age of 76, was the leader of the International Pentecostal Holiness Church, which has 350 branches and more than three million members in Southern Africa.


 * He inherited the leadership in 1998 from his father, Frederick Modise." "Obituary: Glayton Modise, head of ZCC breakaway church," Chris Barron, 2016-02-21 This may prove useful in sorting out this mess.96.59.183.125 (talk) 01:08, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * My apologies for missing that in this article. I was looking at the father's article, which was unclear, but I fixed it here.96.59.183.125 (talk) 01:12, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Redirect or delete?

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  J 947  05:01, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep -- As the leader of 350 churches, Glayton was in a position similar to that of the bishop or archbishop in a major denomination. Accordingly, he is certainly notable.  The current article is hardly more than a stub, but that is not grounds for deletion.  Are there any newspaper obituaries?  Peterkingiron (talk) 11:21, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I think that I posted his obit earlier, right here. Was that what you were looking for, & somehow overlooked? (It's all good : we all overlook stuff, since we're only human.)
 * Yes, the Obituary in the South Africa Sunday Times is liked above. Having read it, I am all the more convinced that this is a keep.  Peterkingiron (talk) 23:28, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, very good. While you weighed in on Articles_for_deletion/Erika_Grey, another article on the chopping block, I notice you didn't vote. Since your last comment there, much discussion, especially pro, but also con, has ensued & developed. Do you think you could take another look and weigh in some more? It's been relisted. Moreover, the article is more solid since some recent edits to Erika Grey. Thanks.96.59.129.57 (talk) 18:59, 15 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep -- As per Peterkingiron (talk) who mentions his oversight, but I'd add, the fact his father is notable is a very strong argument for keeping. (Not that having a 'notable' father, alone, is sufficient, but it helps.96.59.169.231 (talk) 14:02, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment I add that I just looked at article: "a total membership of over three million." VERY notable, even if for no other reason.96.59.169.231 (talk) 14:08, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep added a few of the major South African papers that covered him. A number of articles during this tenure, teh church was a big deal and campaigning politicians used to stop by, producing article that describe the Church's scale and buildings. When he died, there was a battle over who would run the church; involving a son, Modise's two rival wives, and thousands of people mobbing courts where some aspect of teh church's afairs were being settled.  Also a good deal of violence.  It would be nice if someone felt equal to the challenge of producing a good article.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:37, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  J 947  05:27, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:17, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:17, 21 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.