Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Glenn Elliott (politician)

Glenn Elliott (politician)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Non-notable local official and U.S. Senate candidate. All sources cited on the page are WP:ROTM coverage of his mayorship and Senate campaign. No real in-depth coverage of him as a person, and no indication that either his campaign or mayoral administration were considered especially notable by media outlets. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 17:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and West Virginia. Shellwood (talk) 17:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * This page was created on July 13 2024, enough time has not passed to allow for adequate information including references to be added. Lombardb21 (talk) 18:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Law.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  19:06, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Redirect to 2024 United States Senate election in West Virginia as a valid and appropriate outcome for a candidate for the United States Senate. Appropriate information can be added to that page about the subject. --Enos733 (talk) 21:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Both of the former Candidates Zach Shrewsbury and Don Blankenship shown on 2024 United States Senate election in West Virginia have pages. 2603:301F:2801:7C00:7437:901D:45CC:C3B5 (talk) 13:35, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep, As the mayor of one of the largest cities in his state, Elliott is a notable offical. There is a high amount of coverage dating back to several years. The Senate race page does not mention much of the information in this article, so a redirect would not really benefit anyone. Microplastic Consumer (talk) 21:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Wheeling has a population under 30,000. The fact that it happens to be one of the largest cities in WV is irrelevant, being the mayor of a relatively small community does not establish notability. Please familiarize yourself with WP:NPOL.BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 00:56, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Kindly refrain from suggesting that other contributors have not read the relevant policies. There is no policy stating how large the population of a city must be for its mayor to be notable, and there are other factors here, because the subject is a major party nominee for national office—not, as you suggest below, the state legislature.  P Aculeius (talk) 03:19, 19 July 2024 (UTC)


 * I forgot to say this when I made the nomination, but I would be in favor of a redirect to the WV Senate page. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 00:56, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Redirect to 2024 United States Senate election in West Virginia: Subject does not have the standalone significant coverage to meet the WP:GNG and does not meet WP:NPOL. Redirect to the election as a WP:ATD. Let&#39;srun (talk) 01:29, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Redirect: fails NPOL and GNG. recreate if he gets elected, obviously. Queen of Hearts &thinsp;talk 03:20, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep. Notable as mayor of Wheeling and the Democratic Party's nominee for U.S. Senate in 2024.  There certainly will be substantial coverage of him in news sources, both during his two terms as mayor, and since declaring his candidacy for the Senate.  A redirect to an article on the 2024 Senate election would only be appropriate for minor party candidates, or those who were defeated in the primary elections.  The suggestion to redirect his article to the West Virginia Senate should be withdrawn; he is not a candidate for the state legislature, but the United States Senate.  P Aculeius (talk) 03:19, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Please familiarize yourself with WP:NPOL, which states that "just being an elected local official, or an unelected candidate for political office, does not guarantee notability." I heavily disagree that Elliott is guaranteed to receive in-depth national coverage, and even if that were true, it still wouldn't be a valid argument--we can't maintain a Wikipedia page on the basis that the subject might eventually become notable. Also, it should have been obvious that "the WV Senate page" meant the page for the 2024 Senate race in WV. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 04:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Please familiarize yourself with WP:NPA before you tell people that they need to read policies they're already familiar with—as you've already done twice in this conversation. There are perfectly legitimate reasons for disagreeing with you besides pure ignorance.  And it's not at all obvious that you knew what you were talking about, since "the WV Senate page" presumably refers to the page about the West Virginia Senate.
 * U.S. Senate races are not "run of the mill" items of no interest to most readers; that suggestion is not worthy of rebuttal. And I wasn't referring to potential future coverage, but to current and prior coverage.  Mayors of major cities in a state and U.S. Senate races tend to generate a fair amount of news coverage; your nomination suggests that you haven't looked beyond the currently cited sources, which would mean that the nomination doesn't comply with WP:BEFORE.
 * You seem to be under the impression that only national news sources are relevant, while the Wheeling Intelligencer is not; but that is one of the main newspapers in the state, and in excluding its coverage from consideration, you're the one applying non-existent standards to reach a conclusion of non-notability. The notability guidelines expressly state that state and local politicians may be notable; they do not say that their notability depends on the existence or quantity of nationwide coverage.  P Aculeius (talk) 05:38, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Your interpretation of the rules seems to be that any mayor of a small city or U.S. Senate nominee is automatically notable. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. AfDs for local officials and U.S. Senate candidates succeed very frequently. Just off the top of my head: here's an AfD where a mayor of a city the same size as Wheeling lost his Wikipedia page, and here's an AfD where the GOP Senate nominee in Montana lost his Wikipedia page (and the Montana race is much more competitive than the WV race). Both of those examples are very recent and show that your interpretation of the rules is not shared by the wider community of editors. If you want, I could cite plenty more examples. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 07:41, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * No, I didn't say that "any mayor of a small city is automatically notable"; I said that "this two-term mayor of one of West Virginia's largest cities who is now the Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate is sufficiently notable to keep." Please don't speak for me or, for that matter, for other editors—let them express their own opinions.
 * This article is not comparable to "Manny Cid", who is only one of eight candidates running for mayor of Miami-Dade County, having previously served as mayor of the unincorporated town of Miami Lakes, the 89th largest city in Florida, which has a council-manager government. There as here, the argument that local news coverage cannot be used to establish notability was made, and refuted.  Why it's being asserted again here defies all reason.  Some of those who voted to merge that article into the 2024 mayoral election for Miami-Dade County indicated that he would be sufficiently notable if he won—and became mayor.
 * It is more comparable to the example of Tim Sheehy, but with key differences: Sheehy is the operator of a small company in Montana that fights fires with planes and drones, not the two-term mayor of one of Montana's largest cities. The main contributor to the article had a close connection with the subject, while the second-biggest contributor concurred with redirection.  Glenn Elliott has news coverage dating back to 2016 already cited in this article.  P Aculeius (talk) 12:38, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Both of the Defeated Candidates Zach Shrewsbury and Don Blankenship have pages. 2603:301F:2801:7C00:7437:901D:45CC:C3B5 (talk) 13:31, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * This argument is completely irrelevant and not really even worth consideration. Also, this IP user's only edits are on this deletion discussion. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 19:59, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * BottleofChoclateMilk, WP:WHATABOUT applies to you mentioning the two other deletions. The subject has the WP:3SOURCES from AP, The Hill, and The Intelligencer
 * Manny Cid has a fraction of the coverage as Elliott, and is from a much larger state too. 30,000 people in Florida is tiny while 30,000 in West Virginia can be considered a large city. Microplastic Consumer (talk) 14:21, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't know where you got this idea that a mayor of a small city is automatically notable if that city happens to be located in a small state. That just doesn't make any sense. The Hill article you cited is WP:ROTM coverage, while the AP article is a little better but not proof of notability. Also, U.S. Senate nominees are not automatically notable; again, you are depicting your personal interpretation of the rules as fact. See also Articles for deletion/Hung Cao (2nd nomination), where numerous editors used "U.S. Senate nominees are not automatically notable" as their reasons for favoring deletion. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 19:59, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I repeat—stop putting words in people's mouths. Nobody in this discussion has said either of the things that you keep repeating ad nauseam.  I didn't cite any articles either, so stop telling me that what I didn't say can be ignored for reasons A, B, and C.  You also shouldn't be relying on WP:ROTM as though it were policy; it's only an essay.  And this race has significant national implications, since its outcome will help determine whether the Republican Party is able to gain control of the U.S. Senate.  The coverage is not, "person nobody's ever heard of announces candidacy," but "prominent national figure endorses candidate for his successor; control of U.S. Senate hangs in balance".  So this is far from "run of the mill", even if that were a policy—which it's not.
 * You should learn to respect other people whose opinions on how policies apply to a set of facts differ from yours, and to accept that yours isn't the only valid point of view. If other people disagree, it doesn't mean that you need to keep bludgeoning them with the same arguments over and over, as though you can negate someone's opinion by explaining that they're wrong and just don't understand the rules as well as you do.  P Aculeius (talk) 02:12, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * You're making an argument that the Senate race is notable, not an argument that Elliott is notable. Every Senate election in history fits the definition of "will help determine whether the Republican Party is able to gain control of the U.S. Senate." Have Elliott or his campaign received extensive, in-depth coverage? If he loses, will people still be searching for him in 10 years? Your uncivil, angry tone isn't helping your argument. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 02:46, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Seriously, just stop—I already said I considered the facts sufficient to satisfy notability, I explained why when you argued I was wrong, and I replied to your arguments when you insisted I was wrong to continue to disagree with you. You're just not listening: you can't negate people's opinions by telling them why you think they're wrong over and over.  Stop telling people they need to read the policy, stop putting words in their mouths, stop filling the discussion with straw men, and stop pinging people every time you reply, as though nobody can be expected to check on a discussion they're participating in.  I gave my reasons, and I don't need to keep doing it over and over and argue with every reply you keep adding without anything changing.  P Aculeius (talk) 02:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Dear lord, calm down. Again, it's hard to have a civil discussion with someone who gets blisteringly angry over nothing. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 04:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * You pinged me four times in less than 24 hours just to tell me that my reasons were wrong and that I needed to read policies I'm already familiar with, and assuming that I said things about policies that I plainly didn't say—multiple times, and now you're telling me repeatedly that I'm the problem for being uncivil and angry. It seems like you're the one who needs to learn how to participate in a talk page discussion.  P Aculeius (talk) 13:39, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for calming down BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 17:57, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Redirect: on the off-chance he wins the page can be reconstituted, as others have said it seems like routine coverage during an election campaign to what will be a decidedly uncompetitive race (most pollsters and forecasts have WV as a solid red flip, no polls have been conducted between Justice and Elliott. Elliott seems decidedly not notable as a result, even if he is a mayor of Wheeling, as others have also said, being a mayor of a town, any town or city, is not an inherently notable thing.
 * Talthiel (talk) 16:56, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep. Given the totality of coverage as Mayor of Wheeling, and the totality of coverage as a major party candidate running to represent West Virginia in the U.S. Senate—at the national level, I interpret the subject of this page to be notable under relevant policies within WP:NPOL. For the same reasons, I would argue coverage of the subject is also not WP:ROTM as it pertains to political candidates.:Timothy Bellman(talk) 16:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Worth noting that this user seems to have a personal connection to Elliott. He uploaded the posed, professional headshot of Elliott on the page and tagged it as "own work." BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 19:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)