Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gordon Nell


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. General consensus to keep. (non-admin closure) SST flyer 03:45, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Gordon Nell

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Non-notable former minor league baseball player. Fails WP:GNG and WP:BASE/N. Declined PROD, with the suggestion that "old newspapers somewhere" have covered him. Well, let's look. A search of google.com/newspapers turns up a police chief. Adding the word "baseball" to the search still yields nothing on this subject. Onus is on you, Alex, to produce sources to establish notability. I looked and can't find any. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:27, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:27, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:27, 15 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep This is getting ridiculous. These nominations are bordering on WP:POINTy, with a clear effort to drive me away from Wikipedia. This attempt to stifle contributions to Wikipedia, even those that have legitimate research value, is a major factor active membership on Wikipedia has been in active decline for over half a decade. Gordon Nell won five home run titles and a Triple Crown. He had over 350 home runs. To assume he does not have appropriate sourcing somewhere is ridiculous, and that mentality lends itself to having myriad articles of persons from the pre-Internet era being deleted. The goal of Wikipedia is to educate, to spread and disseminate meaningful knowledge. I do not understand the reasoning behind this continued assault on intellectual edification. There is no reason for these persistent AFDs other than to attempt to cause members to become so angry or upset that they will leave. Alex (talk) 00:49, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Point by point response...
 * This is getting ridiculous. These nominations are bordering on WP:POINTy, with a clear effort to drive me away from Wikipedia. This attempt to stifle contributions to Wikipedia, even those that have legitimate research value, is a major factor active membership on Wikipedia has been in active decline for over half a decade.
 * No. Wikipedia has policies that tell us what belongs and what doesn't belong. WP:GNG is the applicable one in this case. We are not trying to get you to leave Wikipedia; we are trying to get you to improve your contributions.
 * Gordon Nell won five home run titles and a Triple Crown. He had over 350 home runs.
 * These things are true. These things do not mean that he passes WP:BASE/N.
 * To assume he does not have appropriate sourcing somewhere is ridiculous, and that mentality lends itself to having myriad articles of persons from the pre-Internet era being deleted.
 * It certainly can be hard to find sources for "pre-Internet" subjects. But it's not impossible. The Google News Archive is just one way to find newspaper articles that have been uploaded to the Internet. I've gotten articles on old time baseball figures to GA status through that method. There are other databases as well. Any of them could have sources on this subject, but the WP:BURDEN on providing those sources is on the editor who adds the information.
 * The goal of Wikipedia is to educate, to spread and disseminate meaningful knowledge. I do not understand the reasoning behind this continued assault on intellectual edification. There is no reason for these persistent AFDs other than to attempt to cause members to become so angry or upset that they will leave.
 * Again, Wikipedia only functions because of core policies, like WP:GNG. If we throw that out the window, then Wikipedia ceases to be useful. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:21, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - Miles away from notability. This isn't Baseballwiki. John from Idegon (talk) 00:50, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment Note to closing administrator: Muboshgu and John from Idegon are incapable of providing objective viewpoints at this time, as they are both involved in a harassment case currently unfolding in arbitration. This is a clear case of collusion. Please consider this before acting. Alex (talk) 00:53, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * LOL. I notice you forgot to provide a link to that AN/I section for the closing administrator. Here it is. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:21, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. North America1000 00:57, 15 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. Article is mostly unreferenced and has no information on why this relatively unremarkable career minor leaguer should have an article. The "one of the most feared hitters in the country" quote is attributed to some journeyman pitcher that he apparently had a good game against...  not exactly a good source. Another poorly written article without even basic formatting... sigh.. Spanneraol (talk) 03:41, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete Zero sources demonstrating WP:GNG. OhNo itsJamie Talk 13:54, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * What is wrong with the New Mexico Baseball book that is linked in the article? That is more than zero. 14:57, 15 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep - I have to agree with Alex on this one (on the result, not the persecution). WP:BASEBALL/N does not do a very good job dealing with pre-WWII minor leaguers, when the minor leagues had a different meaning.  Nell reached the pre-War American Association, one of the top tier minor leagues before it became a development league, and when it was regionally far more important than the high minor leagues today.  While he only played a few games there, for which I would normally not advocate for notability, Nell also has that Triple Crown, albeit in a low minor league.  As there is already one source in the article, and the availability of online sources for subjects 70+ years old can be sporadic, I have to say keep, perhaps on an WP:IAR basis. Rlendog (talk) 15:06, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Minor League Baseball wasn't the big deal then that it is now. That's why the notable career minor leaguer from back in the day, a Joe Bauman type, is truly rare. There's nothing to suggest Gordon Nell is in that class. So you're suggesting we IAR to keep this, why? – Muboshgu (talk) 16:20, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * That is not the case. And I am referring to the high minor leagues, which Nell briefly attained, not the D league in which he won his triple crown.  At a time when the Major Leagues stopped at the Mississippi River, the Canadian border and essentially the Mason-Dixon line, and even major cities such as Baltimore lacked a Major League team, and there was no TV to broadcast Major League games to cities beyond the 10 Major League cities, the high minors were the highest level much of North America got to see.  And Nell played in the high minors when those minor league teams were not just developmental teams tied to Major League team, but independent teams that were locally and even regionally important. Rlendog (talk) 01:59, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Based on Cb162'a research, he appears appropriate to keep based on WP:GNG, not even needing IAR. Rlendog (talk) 02:01, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep - Passes WP:GNG. A search of Newspapers.com turns up over 1,000 hits.  Examples: this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and lots more. Cbl62 (talk) 17:34, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The New Mexico baseball book linked in the article has a full page discussing Nell and also represents significant coverage in a reliable source. Cbl62 (talk) 18:04, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe this one does meet GNG. Onus has been on Alex to provide these sources, so I thank you for finding them and will keep newspapers.com in mind in the future. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:45, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * In the past, I have used google news archive and newspaperarchive.com. Google news archive is much harder to use than it was in the past. For the past year or more, I've been relying much more heavily on Newspapers.com.  For those interested in topics from the 1900s to the 1970s, I highly recommend it.  Cbl62 (talk) 17:56, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the advice. Google News archive is indeed worse than it used to be. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:10, 16 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep - pre-WWII Minor Leagues were different than today. And not in the way people are claiming. There was clamor for the Pacific Coast League to become a third major league, which would never happen with minor leagues today. The leagues were more independent than they are now, meaning someone had to be pretty good to stick around as opposed to finding a team that would stick him in the minors for a while. Numerous newspaper results, which would be highly unusual for a non-notable minor leaguer today, and pretty near impossible 70+ years ago. He easily fulfills the criteria. Smartyllama (talk) 17:58, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * He didn't play in the PCL. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:46, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
 * He played in the American Association, which was the same level (although I would acknowledge that regional factors probably give PCL an edge in notability. Rlendog (talk) 02:04, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep as a WP:GNG pass, per Cbl62's excellent research. Ejgreen77 (talk) 20:58, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep perhaps somewhat confidently as this is convincing enough. SwisterTwister   talk  05:03, 22 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.