Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gorn Confederation


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus to delete. W.marsh 14:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Gorn Confederation

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Heavy in universe plot summary about a fictional race of lizards. Article does not any cite reliable sources as evidence of notability outside the game from which it derives. Gavin Collins 14:38, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Game-related deletions.   --Gavin Collins 14:38, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Adequate notability and sourcing. Colonel Warden 14:52, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Sourcing is NOT adequate. ALL sources are to the works of fiction that contain this group.  There are ZERO sources to any independent reliable sources, and thus fails WP:FICT requirements that an article be about a fictional element that has a real world perspective.  No evidence that ANY real-world perspective exists for this group, so the article should be deleted.  --Jayron32| talk | contribs  17:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment The references still seem good enough to me, being highly authoritative. But since you're shouting so loudly, I've just been through my piles of dusty magazines to add another one.Colonel Warden 18:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * the sources lack independence which is what is needed; they are to the actual works of fiction rather than to some source unconnected to said works of fiction. if you have those magazines where the subject is discussed, and can provide those references, that would be very helpful. --Jayron32| talk | contribs  21:23, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete, violates WP:NOT and unlikely reliable secondary sources can be found to establish notability per WP:FICT. Doctorfluffy 19:16, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Note - user indefinitely blocked as disruptive sockpuppet. — xDanielx T/C 22:32, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Gorn, Gorn, gone. Unnotable. Clarityfiend 23:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * strong keep - even I remember the Gorn. That was the big dinosaur that Kirk fought, right? He used gunpowder to kill the thing. The fight scene was referenced in an episode of Family Guy. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 02:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge per Pinball22. I also think that the Star Fleet Universe pages should be treated as a group since they're presented as part of a series.  The universe is shared by more than one game publisher, there ought to be some reliable sources out there. Kmusser 19:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge The information, while appropriate to the notable topics related to Star Fleet Universe, would be better served as a merged article along with the other in universe government pages. It would have been more appropriate to apply a Merge Multiple articles template to the various pages (see WP:MERGE) rather then suggest deletion, which gives little time to create such a page.  Please note that Gavin Collins has applied this template to the other articles that would be good candidates for merging with this article and those making their opinion noted here should check out those pages as well. Iarann 17:41, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Gavin Collins has made a comment on another related page up for deletion that merging is not a good option. I am posting this response because all of these articles are up for deletion for the same reason and are related. Typically when an article is merged, extraneous information is removed and the article is slimmed down and properly cited.  When sources are cited, and an article is not considered notable enough by itself, I don't understand why you would oppose merging.  Especially when most of these articles you have already tried to delete for the exact same reasons survived (see  for the Klingon Empire AfD and  for the Romulan Star Empire AfD).  I also strongly recommend you take a look at the Nomination section of the Guide to deletion which mentions you should both give thought to merging and "You must look for, and demonstrate that you couldn't find, any independent sources of sufficient depth."  The article does have references at the bottom of the page, and therefore with cleaning could easily be merged.  At the least, if we merged all of these race/government articles into two articles based on the Alliance and Coalition headings they seem to fall under, it would help keep things relevant and notable both to the appropriate subject and Wikipedia guidelines.  A lack of inline sources is not enough for deletion, as you well know or you would have used that argument in your original nomination.  To go back to your original argument for deletion, if there is no notability outside of the game guide, I do not understand why an article for the game guide itself, which is quite notable, cannot include information related to the governments involved in the game.  I noticed there is a history of this (see  for an RFC for Gavin Collins) which leads me to some concern to your motives.  While I understand a desire to clean up Wikipedia, AfD is not the only solution, nor should it be rushed to.  Instead, things like merging and working to clean up articles and cite sources should be emphasized first. Iarann 17:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: That's right, we must delete or merge this trivial article that's only useful to a few thousand people in order to save electrons. Remember, save those electrons, they're more important than you think —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.139.148.100 (talk) 18:36, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. This article is 'not Gorn] which covers the appearance of the race in Star Trek but rather about the derived group in the Star Fleet Universe which is rather less notable.  I believe that a delete is appropriate because this is already adequately covered in other places but won't strenuously object to a merge to Races of the Star Fleet Universe or a similar article.  Eluchil404 22:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.