Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Grand Junction, Birmingham


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Birmingham New Street railway station. Article history will be left intact since there is substantial interest in merging content. Seraphimblade Talk to me 06:36, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Grand Junction, Birmingham

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Clearly fails WP:GNG, one source is a map book, the other is a historical source. Any sourced content could be moved to Birmingham New Street railway station. Rly junctions generally do not merit their own articles. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 18:14, 21 September 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:52, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and England. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 18:14, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep, Needs better references, but not deletion. One of the busiest rail junctions in the country, and the central hub of the entire CrossCountry network, so definitely article-worthy. New Street article is already quite cluttered without adding this. G-13114 (talk) 23:54, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. It's a less than a mile from Birmingham New Street railway station, but that article only mentions in as a label on a diagram. Not all named railway things get coverage. Not your siblings&#39; deletionist (talk) 21:37, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: Relisting as questions have arisen about whether or not this junction also went by the name Proof House Junction and sources can be found under that title instead. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:12, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep per G-13114 Rossonwy (talk) 03:21, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. There are plenty of sources on the WP:Library and Jstor. Such as this one where the directory states the Grand Junction Railway was opened by an Act of Parliament in 1833. More mention of the junction here, saying it was realigned to make way for a new train line. Seems notable enough.   &ddagger; Night Watch &omega;     (talk)   14:08, 29 September 2022 (UTC) Comment. There appears to be a lot of hits for Grand Junction, Birmingham but most are just referring to Grand Junction Railway and not this junction. I'll keep searching   &ddagger; Night Watch &omega;     (talk)   14:25, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep per G-13114, although I could support deletion if cleanup is determined not to be possible. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 11:31, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete, fails WP:GNG. Note that G-13114 has made an entirely policy and guideline free argument, closer is required to disregard personal opinions which are not supported by policy or guideline. Horse Eye&#39;s Back (talk) 15:46, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. All that came up of note was just referrals to the Grand Junction train line that ran through Birmingham, and not the Birmingham junction that is the subject of the article. Strange that one of the busiest junctions in the UK would not have more sources.  &ddagger; Night Watch &omega;     (talk)   04:31, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * delete I'm just not seeing much here that produces a claim to notability: a comparison with results for Zoo Junction is instructive. Mangoe (talk) 14:00, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment It appears that the more modern term for the junction is Proof House Junction that might be why User:The Night Watch was having trouble finding sources for it. There's coverage of it Here for example. And this Map appears to confirm this, although the layout is complicated, and it could be said to consist of several separate junctions, there's a historical page about it Here. However, as it is the meeting place of six railway lines, including three main lines, it's a nationally important piece of infrastructure, the notion that it isn't significant, is plainly ludicrous. G-13114 (talk) 17:14, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @G-13114 When did the junction change its name to proof house? There’s a decent amount of coverage, but I just want to make sure this is the right junction.  &ddagger; Night Watch &omega;     (talk)   13:48, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @ It's not clear to me that Grand Junction, Birmingham and Proof House Junction are the same based on the text of the article which makes it seem like they are adjacent to one another. Am I misunderanding the article? Regardless, if the current term is Proof House Junction shouldn't the article itself be titled Proof House Junction and then in the history section connect the older name to the current one?4meter4 (talk) 17:02, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm unsure, I do know that Proof House Junction is the most common term for it, but it's possible that the complex layout is regarded as multiple junctions. I've added a notification at the UK rail wikiproject, and hopefully we'll be able to clear up the confusion. G-13114 (talk) 18:50, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * They are two completely separate junctions. I refer you to [[Media:Birmingham & Bordesley RJD 7.jpg]]: start at Birmingham New Street and proceed eastwards along the red line. Proof House Junction is the first one that you come to, 61 chains out, where the line shown as "to Bushbury" diverges from the main London line. Continue east along the London line: the line from Curzon Street comes in 8 chains further on, and now you are on the original London & Birmingham Railway's line. Another 8 chains further out, we have two green lines going off on the right: one to Derby and one to Bristol - the junction where these diverge from the London line is Grand Junction. So Proof House Junction and Grand Junction are 16 chains (352 yards) apart. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 21:09, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Since these appear to be two separate junctions, and there is a lack of sourcing for this one, my delete !vote stands. I understand this is one of the busiest junctions in the country, but I'm not sure if there is adequate sourcing to support the article. Perhaps a new article on Proof House Junction can be created with the available material.  &ddagger; Night Watch &omega;     (talk)   00:27, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per G-13114  TITAN O SAURUS  23:39, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge/Redirect' to Birmingham New Street railway station. Fails WP:SIGCOV per the analysis by the nominator. Note to closer, the keep voters are all saying keep per G-13114, but G-13114 has not made a policy based argument for keeping the article. At this point, nobody has actually addressed the nominator's concerns about the lack of independent significant coverage.4meter4 (talk) 01:45, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete/merge Fails WP:GNG so it isn't independently notable, I've googled and I can't find additional sources which haven't already been brought up. Note that 4meter4 is correct, G-13114 has made an argument without any basis in policy or guideline so the closer is required to disregard it (and any editors who invoke it without providing a policy or guideline based argument). Horse Eye&#39;s Back (talk) 16:55, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Horse Eye&#39;s Back, you have cast two votes, please cross one of them out. Thanks. Liz Read! Talk! 08:22, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oops you're right! I meant to strike the first one when I updated from Delete to Delete/merge. Horse Eye&#39;s Back (talk) 14:32, 12 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Merge/redirect to Birmingham New Street railway station. This article does not meet GNG, and would be acceptable as a small section in the station article. No arguments for retention of this article consistent with policy have been made here. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 13:20, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I am not opposed to merging the article to Birmingham New Street railway station. Since there is a lack of SIGCOV, perhaps some of this material could be inserted there. I'd say Merge is probably the best option.  &ddagger; Night Watch &omega;     (talk)   21:40, 12 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.