Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Grant Avalon


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   speedy delete. Article is a hoax, created by a set of sockpuppets who want a wikipedia article on themselves. Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs ) 13:40, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Grant Avalon

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

No evidence that this purported inventor is notable, or that he is even the only inventor, of a novelty toy for thumb wrestling. Online searches can not verify the facts stated in the article. The new editor who created the article may not understand notability guidelines. Bearian (talk) 23:37, 15 April 2010 (UTC) Editor here! Grant Avalon is the brain behind the product, sold on websites as legitimate and popular as amazon. This should not have been considered for deletion because the grounds were off base. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshdave86 (talk • contribs) 00:09, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete The brief mention of the "thumb wrestling ring" (basically, a little model of a boxing ring, with two thumb sized holes) doesn't include any information about Mr. Avalon, and there's no source to indicate that he's notable. I'm sure that he's made enough money off of this novelty item to offset the trauma of not having his own Wikipedia article.  If I had a choice between the fame of Wikipedia, or quietly becoming wealthy, I'd go for the latter.  Here, there's no choice. Mandsford (talk) 12:39, 16 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete - no coverage 'bout him. And the stated claim is not verified by the source provided, so more significant than notability, the article fails verifiability. -- Whpq (talk) 15:58, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:12, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:12, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

*Keep While the source does not mention the inventor himself, it is still true. I am Grant Avalon, and while I have made a fair amount of money off of this and other original creations, this does not satisfy the fact that I do not have an article. They are not mutually exclusive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 3625Grant (talk • contribs) 22:29, 16 April 2010 (UTC) — 3625Grant (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

*Keep I have one of these wrestling rings and they were distributed initially by Grant Avalon - i think he made his prototypes for a college project - and then other companies like 'Think Wow' got on the bandwagon - which make OK versions but 'Hog Wild' use his original design now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rafathegaffer (talk • contribs) 23:32, 17 April 2010 (UTC) — Rafathegaffer (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Delete, fails WP:BIO. NawlinWiki (talk) 20:34, 17 April 2010 (UTC) And I don't appreciate having my !votes removed by IPs, as happened here.  NawlinWiki (talk) 05:16, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment In looking over the edit histories on this article and on Longview, Washington, it's pretty clear to me who 71.59.184.91 is. I haven't seen this many puppets in one place in a long time.  Call it "thumb-puppetry". Mandsford (talk) 14:34, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment. Their is a SSP case related to this article. Please review before finalizing. Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs ) 14:49, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment - Interstingly, the thumb war article idnetifies thumb wrestling tings as available, and references this article which contains a malformed reference to a patent. Once the URL is fixed up, you can see the patent storm listing which identifies the inventor as "Hartman, Richard B.". I've n idea of the validity of the patent, but this is information is contrary to the claims made in this article, and at least is one reference which is one more reference than we currently have supporting Grant Avalon as the inventor. -- Whpq (talk) 16:50, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Update - I found this Tacoma New Tribune article which positively identifies Rick Hartman, nicknamed "Mr. Toymaker" as the inventor. As such, this article very much fails the core wikipedia policy of verifiability. -- Whpq (talk) 17:07, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment - Another item that editors reviewing this AFD may wish to look at is this request at articles for creation: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Grant Avalon. It seems rather suspiciously like somebody is determined to stick the name "GRant Avalon" into wikipedia. -- Whpq (talk) 16:56, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

*Comment - Many people have created their own versions of the ring, and Mr. Hartman is just one of many. However, Grant Avalon is the official inventor, not Mr. Hartman —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshdave86 (talk • contribs) 19:24, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Reply - Yet there has yet to be a shred of evidence to support the assertion. -- Whpq (talk) 00:51, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

*Comment - I know the people with the other accounts. They weren't me though. Clearly not sockpuppetry, just people dedicated to Grant Avalon. 22:11, 18 April 2010 (UTC) Welshdave86 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshdave86 (talk • contribs)

*Comment - According to those who I spoke to in the help chat, for a source to be considered reliable, it should mention the purpose of the citation more than just briefly. This is not the case in the article where Mr. Hartman is briefly mentioned as a creator of a thumb wrestling ring. Even so, he is mentioned as a creator of the ring, not the creator. This is not admissible evidence to be used in the deletion of this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshdave86 (talk • contribs) 04:44, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Users blocked I took it upon myself to block the users, even though i was the reporting admin in this case - see the SSP Case for details. Because of this i striped the users comments in this discussion. Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs ) 11:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.