Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Great Lakes Junior Hockey League


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure)  Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk)  06:32, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Great Lakes Junior Hockey League

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Non-notable defunct local junior hockey league. No evidence of meeting WP:GNG, all sources avaliable are non independent of the subject Prevan (talk) 20:39, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:16, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:16, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep Notability is not temporary. Just because it is defunct does not mean the notability it most definitely had during the time it played is lost. And all 3 of the sources on the page are independent despite the claims of the nom. They are all independent publications talking about the league. Meets WP:GNG. -DJSasso (talk) 10:56, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually looking at Google, it seems the similar sounding Great Lakes Hockey League (adult) is notable, but not the completely different junior league which is the subject of this AFD. Can you explain how the three sources are considered "significant coverage" for GNG, or even reliable? The first source is borderline, it covers the subject at significant length but is it really independent of the coverage as it's the official publication of the USA junior hockey league. The second source is dead. The third source is a passing mention discussing one of the teams in the league playing in the arena. That's not enough for GNG. Prevan (talk) 17:25, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, because the publication isn't written by the league itself it is independent, its a publication for junior hockey as a whole. The second source is not dead, works perfectly fine for me. Secondly, junior leagues will have been covered in all the papers in all the cities it had teams in. It would be exceedingly rare for a junior league in this area of the world to not be covered, to the point it would almost be notable for not being covered (if that were a thing). -DJSasso (talk) 18:58, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep (possibly weak) Both the first and second sources are independent from the league and covers a couple of aspects of the league (which seems to meet WP:GNG at the bare minimum standards). I added the third to confirm that it did switch to inline when the majority of teams left with the change to AAU sanctioning. Otherwise it was very difficult to find any non-dead sources for a rather low-level league (Junior C is just not as well covered in the US as in Canada). The best sources may be from primary sources as some of the teams still exist in the United States Premier Hockey League and North American 3 Hockey League. But even then the Tier III teams have purged their sites of historical information at random over the years. Yosemiter (talk) 04:31, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 04:34, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete -- advertorial content on an unremarkable sports league; insufficient RS coverage to meet GNG. K.e.coffman (talk) 08:30, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:26, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Dane 2007  talk 01:13, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment: "Notability is not temporary" does not take into account that the notability of the subject has not yet been established. According to the available sources, this league is (was) not notable. The mentions are rather trivial, such as from link #2 in the article:
 * GLJHL Every Team For Themselves May 9, 2012 7:44 AM


 * The GLJHL is moving to AAU. We have reported on this as well as other sites. TJHN has now learned that teams counted on moving to AAU have recently been in contact with other former GLJHL teams seeking to join the Minnesota Junior Hockey League. These same teams have been contacting other owners seeking to start a new league under AAU that does not include Gerry Lullove as leader of the league.


 * Interstingly, Mr. Lullove is no longer listed as President of the GLJHL on their website. Matt Lullove is now listed as president of the GLJHL according to the GLJHL website. One can only assume based on the surname that Matt Lullove is the son of Gerry Lullove. TJHN conducted research on Matt Lullove and nothing can be found that would rise to a credible hockey resume allowing Matt Lullove to become president of a junior hockey league. On the surface this appears to be nothing more than an attempt to distance itself from the mistakes leading to the leagues future while the Lullove group retains control of the GLJHL through a new figurehead.


 * This is insufficient to meet GNG. As far as regional coverage where the leagues had teams in, I would assume that the coverage would be about the teams in question, rather than the league as a whole. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:27, 13 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Which of the three sources are primary? Two are independent journals (USA Junior Hockey Magazine and TJHN) that focus specifically on junior hockey. Why would an independent journal, TJHN, (which is not regional and covers all junior hockey and highly critical of low-level junior hockey) with a focus on a certain subject not be considered a secondary source? The third (which could be considered primary on the team mentioned) is just there to confirm that the league did not just fold but instead attempted to switch from ice hockey to roller hockey. That said, I already stated that even as junior hockey goes this league was barely notable and more likely is notable for being the origin of current teams in other notable leagues such as the United States Premier Hockey League and the North American 3 Hockey League via the now defunct Minnesota Junior Hockey League. Yosemiter (talk) 23:45, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I've self corrected to state that the sources are insufficient and that the coverage is rather trivial, especially link #2, just reporting on gossip. The GNG states "multiple" reliable sources are required, so here we have one (although judging by the headline it was more along the lies of "The league rebrands vying for new markets..."). Separately, these mentions are from specialist industry publications which suggests that the topic is not yet interesting to the society at large. So overall, this coverage seems rather sparse to me. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:54, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: With the weak keep and concerns of I feel like further discussion is needed before closing this to get a clearer idea of consensus. -- Dane 2007  talk 02:11, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Dane 2007  talk 02:11, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep - Per DJsasso. Junior leagues are considered notable by the hockey project, and this league is no exception. Meets GNG. -- Hockeyben (talk - contribs) 16:54, 21 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep Junior leagues are notable and notability is not temporary. Smartyllama (talk) 13:58, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep per DJSasso's reasoning and arguments as a notable historical junior ice hockey league. Ejgreen77 (talk) 11:09, 24 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.