Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Great south band


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. only two keeps were by the original author. Generally the deletes were inline with established policy. Nja 247 09:27, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Great south band

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I've initially deleted the article but flipped back on my decision as being border-line a speedy candidate. The main concern was the notability of the group (not making WP:MUSIC). JForget 01:14, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 01:16, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Insufficient notability for young band. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've searched for sources both in Google News archives here and in a library database of newspaper and magazine articles, but could not find any relevant sources that would help support WP:N notability of this band. Delete unless more sources turn up. Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 18:22, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. This is the original author here, hello. I understand the notability concerns of all in this discussion, and will endeavour to address those concerns.
 * The article meets notability criteria C9 (won or placed in a major music competition). The Australian Children’s Music Foundation runs the National Songwriting Competition for primary and secondary school aged children in Australia. The patron and founder is Don Spencer, OAM (Order of Australia Medal) an icon in Australian Children’s TV for many years. Ambassadors for the foundation include actor Russell Crowe, The Wiggles, Rolf Harris MBE, OBE, CBE, Australian Idol judge Ian ‘Dicko’ Dickson and Andrew Fariss from INXS. Judges for their competition in 2008 included industry notables like Ian Dickson, and Amanda Pelman, It Takes Two judge. The article references the First Prize award received by lead singer Shenoa South in the Environment category of this competition in 2008. The recorded entry was performed entirely by members of the Great South Band.


 * It could be said that the article also meets notability criteria C4 (non-trivial coverage in a reliable source ...) as it has received coverage in a reliable source, the Zhongshan Daily newspaper (Email:rbnews@zsrb.cn) when members of the Great South Band toured that area of China in October 2008. Date of newspaper article is 5th October. I have been given a copy of the original in Chinese characters, and I’m currently trying to track down a reference to an online or English version.


 * Coverage in both TV and radio also occurred and although less than half an hour, those Chinese news stories do go some way to meeting notability criteria C12 (subject of a half hour or longer broadcast ...). JohnSouthgate 08:00, 27 June 2009 (AEST)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

--Abusing (talk) 03:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak delete. I was unfamiliar with the ACMF National Songwriting Competition, and therefore was unsure of its notability as a major competition. However, after some searching, I found a reliable article about the competition. It would seem that winning this competition is enough to be considered notable within Wikipedia policy. However, according to the newspaper article, Shenoa South was the one who won the competition. So that wouldn't apply to making the entire band notable. The band wasn't even mentioned in the North Shore Times article. In other words, the article either needs to get a reliable source about the band, not just one of its members. I would compare this to an award winning actress. Just because the actress is notable, that doesn't mean the whole cast of a movie she starred in is notable. I say weak delete because I'm believing the article's creator on the fact that the notablility is out there, and he will try and fix the issues. However, it's not a new argument, and it's not always true. So, delete if notability can't be established in another way. Also, the fact that notability is met if the band has been the subject of a broadcast by a media network needs to be verified somehow.
 * Delete I am unaware of the ACMF National Songwriting Competition. Why? Because it is a minor competition. Without evidence of significant coverage in independent reliable sources there is no notability here. Duffbeerforme (talk) 14:18, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you aware of every major competition? Are you sure there aren't notable competitions you aren't aware of?--Abusing (talk) 02:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. This is the original author here again. From Abusing’s comments, it would seem that winning this competition is enough to be considered notable within Wikipedia policy. Thank you, I agree.
 * Abusing goes on to suggest that the award winner and subject of the wikipedia article are two different entities, and that notability is not established for Great South Band by the competition win, but for Shenoa South.


 * But I would like to advise that ”Great South Band”, is often billed as Shenoa South and special guests. Shenoa is founder, songwriter and lead vocalist of the band and it carries her surname. And it is not the same as Dave Matthews Band and Dave Matthews which have separate wikipedia articles. Shenoa’s band is still relatively young and it makes sense to combine the total content of the two entities into a single article.


 * Notability is supported in another way. I can now refer you to the online version of newspaper coverage which addresses notability criteria C4 (non-trivial coverage in a reliable source ...) at


 * I apologise for not being able to translate the Chinese characters, but if you can skip to second page of October 5th 2008 edition, you will see a photo of Shenoa South at the piano along with drummer and guitarist.


 * Also, it was suggested “broadcast by a media network needs to be verified somehow”. Offline video and audio records of the TV and radio broadcasts do in fact exist, and lend support to C12, but as pointed out previously their lengths are less than required half hour.


 * Duffbeerforme – you are asking for “significant coverage” of the referenced competition to establish the article’s notability on the basis of C4. However, the music notability criteria does not refer to significant coverage, and refers twice to non-trivial coverage. Abusing’s reference to the news.com.au article is consistent with non-trivial coverage, as the site is a portal for major Australian news and current affairs internet and print publications.


 * JohnSouthgate 20:03, 3rd July 2009 (AEST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.214.48.95 (talk) 10:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.