Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greater Los Angeles Area


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Courcelles (talk) 01:48, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Greater Los Angeles Area

 * - (|View AfD) (View log)

There appears to be no official or unofficial definition of this geographic area.


 * The concept is definitely in use, for example Greater Los Angeles Area Mensa --Ancheta Wis (talk) 05:47, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Agree with Ancheta Wis - this term is definitely in use, including by the United States Census Bureau, which defines a Combined Statistical Area (CSA) consisting of Los Angeles, Orange, Ventura, Riverside, and San Bernardino counties - see page 105 of the following Census document: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/assets/omb/bulletins/fy05/b05-02_appendix.pdf --66.229.211.131 (talk) 00:56, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Still not definable since the linked source never uses the phrase "Greater Los Angelas". How does the source support the article?--Jojhutton (talk) 04:37, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. we should move the article to Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA Metropolitan Statistical Area 66.215.12.219 (talk) 09:29, 17 July 2010 (UTC)


 * AFD is not the place to discuss page moves. There was a proposal on the article talk page a few months ago to move the article to Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside metropolitan area and other proposals were also discussed. There are many "greater" or "metropolitan" articles - there's no reason to delete this one just because the title isn't ideal.   Will Beback    talk    11:56, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Not only is the title not ideal, but apparently, there is no official designation of what this area is. Nor are there any unofficial references that do so as well. Click on some of the citations in this article, you may have one of those, "WTF" moments, like I did.--Jojhutton (talk) 12:14, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 10:01, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:06, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong keep The phrases "greater Los Angeles area" and "Southland" are widely used in writing and everyday speech, and the area they describe is not synonymous with the Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana MSA. It is much larger, encompassing Orange, Ventura, Riverside, and San Bernardino counties as well as Los Angeles County. See Southland Tales, Southland (TV series),, ,  etc., etc. The area is not precisely defined and maybe the article should be rewritten to reflect that, but the terms are real and everybody understands that they refer not just to Los Angeles but to the whole sprawl from Ventura to Camp Pendleton (north to south) and from the ocean to the Inland Empire (west to east). --MelanieN (talk) 23:42, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying, find a reliable source. There aren't any in the article. I googled "Greater Los Angeles Area" and found nothing.--Jojhutton (talk) 23:57, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I added several sources showing the use of the terms and the areas they are applied to, and I have clarified that the phrases are a matter of "common usage" rather than something officially defined. --MelanieN (talk) 00:09, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Not that your fact finding mission wasn't a good attempt, but those sources don't exactly say Greater Los Angelas Area, they say southland. Secondly, one of the sources is a blog, and is not reliable. Finally, the article is just a mirror of Los Angeles metropolitan area, which also calls it the southland. So the question is, do we really need two articles saying the same exact thing?--Jojhutton (talk) 00:23, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I was more interested in demonstrating that "Southland" is a term in common use and is much broader than just the Los Angeles metro area. But I don't understand why you say you found nothing for "Greater Los Angeles Area". In fact there are ten pages of Google references to this term . In any case, I agree that the page goes into way too much detail which is duplicated at numerous other articles. I would have no quarrel with changing the title to Southland (Southern California) and deleting most of the duplicative content. --MelanieN (talk) 00:41, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Even a name change doesn't hide the fact that they cover exactly the same information. They cover the same cities and georgraphy. I just don't see th epurpose of both. BTW, we need reliable sources. Much of what I find in a Google search wouldn't pass as a reliable source.--Jojhutton (talk) 02:06, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Weak Delete The lack of citations at the top worry me, but if someone could find them, i'd remove my comment. I think the Southern California article does most of what this one does though regardless, so there's that obstacle as well. Doc Quintana (talk) 00:00, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge - They both seem to be talking about the same thing. Greater (Insert city here) = (Insert city here) metropolitan area WhisperToMe (talk) 02:32, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Also when sourcing one should use secondary sources that explicitly state things. For instance "The terms are not officially defined but are in common use in speech and writing" should be sourced with a statement from a publication that says exactly that. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:33, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - per WP:GNG and MelanieN. If an editor has lived in or near a metropolis like Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York, you will know that there is a difference between the "greater" and "metropolitan" areas of a city. The difference is mostly found in the general parlance found used by not only its citizens but chiefly by newspapers, TV and radio stations that will the terms to use them. What was surprising to me as a former L.A. resident, is that Palmdale, California actually is considered within the boundaries or definition of the greater L.A. area. Granted, it falls within the Los Angeles County but most long-time citizens would never think of it that way unless heard on the radio (as per the I-5 south approach) or looking in the Los Angeles Times. The greater area as used in refering to counties that differentiates the outlying areas while the metropolitan refer to the closer contiguous city proper.moreno oso (talk) 16:00, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * With complete and utter understanding that these terms are used and acknowledged by the people of the area, how does this article differ from Los Angeles metropolitan area, and are there citations to support the difference. They seem to be one in the same, and there is no need for both.--Jojhutton (talk) 17:36, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You seem determined not to acknowledge that the "Greater Los Angeles area" is bigger than the Los Angeles Metropolitan Area (which is defined by the Census Bureau as LA and Orange counties). Look, for example, here where the "Veterans Administration Greater Los Angeles Health Care System" serves the counties of Los Angeles, Ventura, Kern, Santa Barbara, and San Luis Obispo. --MelanieN (talk) 01:52, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * !. Perhaps you should take another look at WP:RS, to determine what is a reliable source and what isn't. Unfortunatly, your source doesn't define what 'Greater Los Angeles is, nor does it say how it differs from Los Angeles Metropolitan Area. Wikipedia requires reliable sources.
 * 2. Another point....In each of the two article's infoboxes, they both claim to be ranked 2nd in the United States in population. Now if they are two distinct geographic areas, they can't both be 2nd. And if they are both 2nd, by what standards are they being ranked as such.
 * 3. What wikipedia requires is a reliable secondary source that actually states that "Greater Los Angeles area consists of ......." Without that reliable source, theres no point in speculating because officially, the there is no such area.--Jojhutton (talk) 20:31, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Federal Executive Board] even LA County uses the term. Vegaswikian (talk) 05:42, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep since the boundaries can be sourced. Take a look at the Lakers, or the USGS, the Federal [http://www.losangeles.feb.gov/ Greater Los Angeles
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.