Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greeley West High School


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:08, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Greeley West High School

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Likely non-notable school. News hits on the school were not about the school itself.  Samuel  Tan  01:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment Secondary schools are considered notable without consideration of their merits. Drawn Some (talk) 01:18, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep There is no real accepted way to determine the notability of a school. All we have to go by are the other school related articles.Nomad2u2001 (talk) 01:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Expand There must be a world of information about academic, demographic, and extracurricular statistics and possibly other noteworthy information for the school published in reliable sources on the internet if enough effort is put forth to find it. As an added note, however, I am not a big fan of the assumption that "secondary schools are considered notable without consideration of their merits" because, well, I don't see why a high school completed yesterday without any history of educating students should be kept over elementary schools and middle schools that have been in existence for a few years. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 01:44, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep although there's not exactly much content to keep...--Unionhawk Talk 02:00, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Unionhawk just gave a perfect reason why it should be deleted. I'm not sure why there would be a "Weak  Keep" with what you said, but this is obviously not notable enough for an article.  If there was an article for every high school in the U.S. Wikipedia would be full of garbage.   Anonymous  Talk   —Preceding undated comment added 03:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC).


 * Keep I rewrote the article to show it meets WP:N, not just supposed automatic inclusion standards for high schools. While it's true that the vast majority of news hits are trivial mentions, there were 500+ results on the search I checked (Newsbank) and several were just about the school. --Chiliad22 (talk) 04:10, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I just looked over the article and there is absolutely nothing in it that separates this high school from every other high school in the U.S. There is no reason to have this article unless you plan on making a short, uninformative article about every other high school.   Anonymous  Talk 


 * So these same 4 notable alumni graduated from every other HS in America and all other HSes in America were founded in 1966? Since you say there's absolutely nothing that separates this one from every other high school in the US... --Chiliad22 (talk) 12:22, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Not these same four, but every high school has notable alumni so your four alumni still don't make this high school notable. And in regard to the next comment there are even more high schools with a lot more state title wins.  Have you heard of Harlan High School in Harlan, Iowa?  No, because it's not notable even though they've got 11 state title wins and have been in the state championship game 19 times.  5 of those championship games were in the past 10 years.  That's just in football and doesn't include their wins in other sports.  If this article doesn't get deleted I recommend someone create an article for this much more worthy school.   Anonymous  Talk 


 * I fail to see how the fact that Harlan High School is notable shows Greeley West High School is not notable. If you think there should be an article on Harlan High School, feel free to start it. --Chiliad22 (talk) 19:19, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Please learn to read. I very clearly said NEITHER school is notable.  I was just using Harlan as an example of how NON-notable this other school is due to the fact that Harlan is much more notable and yet is still non-notable.   Anonymous  Talk 


 * There's no need to make personal attacks. Just because you say the other school isn't notable doesn't mean that it isn't notable. --Chiliad22 (talk) 21:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I've also added information on 6 state title wins. --Chiliad22 (talk) 12:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep There's several references there and we've kept high schools with a lot less. Personally I don't see the need for articles on every high school but after seeing several AfDs result in keep we'd be showing bias to delete this one, especially as it's better sourced than many others. Dpmuk (talk) 13:32, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Just because other crap exists, doesn't mean you should throw your principles out of the window and keep something because deletion on similar material failed in the past.- Mgm|(talk) 09:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Referenced articles about high schools have been kept in many previous AFDs. There seems to be a presumption of notability for high schools and colleges, but not for primary (grade, elementary, middle) schools. Has references from Denver Post and Rocky Mountain News. Edison (talk) 18:49, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Which is clear systemic bias. Countries that have no high schools in their system are at a disadvantage by that line of thought. The Netherlands have a basisschool (elementary) and a middelbare school (middle school) before higher education. This shortsighted line of thinking means neither are considered inherently notable while other schools that are no different are. - Mgm|(talk) 09:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * See Articles for deletion/Common outcomes which says "Most elementary and middle schools that don't claim notability are now getting deleted in AfD, with high schools in most cases being kept.". What are examples of articles about Netherlands highschool-equivalent "middelbare," which have been deleted despite as many references as this article? Or were you just setting up a straw-man argument claiming nonexistent discrimination? If you want to create a notability guideline which sets the bar different from the actual defacto standard shown in AFD outcomes, see the failed efforts at schools. Notability guidelines generally just restate the community consensus as expressed in actual AFDs, rather than enacting into law what a few editors feel the standard "should" be. The Netherlands Wikipedia article on Middelbare says they were secondary schools, (like high schools) but the term was replaced in the last quarter of the 20th century by "voortgezet onderwijs." Feel free to create referenced articles about any you are interested in. If you want to get right to work improving articles about Netherlands high schools, see Category:Secondary schools in the Netherlands, which contains 6 (mostly unreferenced) articles. Edison (talk) 17:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - state championship wins and multiple alumni are clear claims to notability. Sources available easily meet WP:ORG. TerriersFan (talk) 20:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In that case nearly every high school in existence should be included on Wikipedia.  Anonymous  Talk 


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.  —TerriersFan (talk) 21:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's why I made the comment I did. No need to discuss it or waste time debating it or worrying over it.  I see it's been listed for the school-anti-deletionists to comment.  My suggestion now is to close the discussion as keep for WP:SNOW. Drawn Some (talk) 22:16, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep WP:SNOW Drawn Some (talk) 22:25, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. There's a consensus that high schools are inherently notable.— S Marshall   Talk / Cont  00:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No there's not. There's a consensus for things like deletion of articles about future music albums. No reasonable veteran Wikipedian opposes that idea. Schools are still plenty controversial, so they're a textbook example of something that has not got consensus. - Mgm|(talk) 09:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I respectfully disagree. Do you know of any examples of a high school-related AfD where the high school (a) verifiably existed and (b) was deleted at AfD at any time in the last year?  I have a rather strong impression that high schools are only deleted in very exceptional circumstances.— S Marshall   Talk / Cont  15:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, if I thought all high schools were inherently notable, there wouldn't have been any motivation for me to improve the article. It seems like just saying highschools inherently deserve articles encourages poor articles... there's no need to make them decent. --Chiliad22 (talk) 02:52, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Weak keep It scrapes a few points from the WP:BEEFSTEW criteria I use and has potential for getting more through expansion. - Mgm|(talk) 09:56, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:HEY - plenty of evidence of notability - notable alumni, championship sports teams, a Denver Post article, etc. Easily passes my standards. High schools are not per se notable, but almost all public high schools are so.  (Small, new, parochial secondary schools, or those without any sports/music programs may not be notable.) Bearian (talk) 19:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Previously established consensus is that all high schools are notable. Edward321 (talk) 23:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep The practice that all secondary schools are notable is necessary in order to avoid discussing the merits of each at considerable length in order to weed out perhaps 10% or so that might not be. It just isn't worth it--especially considering that the   error rate at AfD is almost certainly considerably higher than 10%. The argument that the assumed notability of high schools removes motivation to improve articles on them is as sensible as that the assumed notability of US senators removes the motivation to improve their articles. it's actually the other way: many people who wouldn't be able to begin articles come here, and would be able to improve them. DGG (talk) 05:43, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.