Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greg Heeres


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Seems like there is not enough evidence that this fellow is notable. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 05:48, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Greg Heeres

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PROD removed by an IP with absolutely no explanations at all yet I was specific with the PROD here in stating that he's not satisfying the football notability at all; the article's tone overall is concerning as it is, so it says the emphasis of the concerns the fact it was removed yet no improvements. Examining the history several times again shows all of these users seem to otherwise be from that locality and, granted, interest invested with the subject since the IP is coming from that said locality. SwisterTwister  talk  02:40, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:18, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:18, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:18, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:19, 21 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. Quarterbacks at Division I FBS level almost always get sufficient coverage to pass WP:GNG. Heeres was a quarterback at a level three tiers below that, Division I FBS --> Division I FCS --> Division II --> NCAA Division III. He does not satisfy WP:NGRIDIRON or WP:NCOLLATH, and I am not finding significant coverage in multiple, reliable sources of the type that would pass the GNG bar. If such coverage is found and presented here, I am willing to reconsider my vote. Cbl62 (talk) 03:25, 21 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete High school and college ballplayer. All American in college but that is not sufficient for notability. Drafted by MLB (highschool) and NFL but never played pro. Does not meet WP:ATHLETE. Apparently now some sort of motivational speaker, but the supposedly "notable quotes" and "inspiring words" in the article are less than convincing. The listed sources are useless for showing notability (the Falcon's 1985 roster ref is probably the best WP:RS in the article, but it is there to show that he was not on the roster. Fails WP:GNG. This article appears to exist to bolster the addition of Greg Heeres to various notable resident/alumni lists. Meters (talk) 03:26, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * If he truly were an All-American quarterback, he would pass WP:NCOLLATH, but I find no sources to back up that claim. Cbl62 (talk) 03:32, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I find the claim that he was drafted by MLB while he was still in highschool a bit dubious too. Thanks for the correction. I should have realized that.Meters (talk) 03:49, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I should clarify. The baseball draft is certainly possible, but it's only cited to the subject's personal webpage, and with all of the rounds in the MLB draft it really does not mean much if he was drafted.


 * Comment This says he was an All-American. I doubt the college made it up. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 18:17, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I've done a lot of research on All-Americans, and you'd be surprised how often colleges publish erroneous information about All-Americans (sometimes including second- or third-team, and even "honorable mention" recipients. That's IMO a good reason why we have a policy of regarding info published by a college player's alma mater as not being independent for GNG purposes. In any event, I searched newspapers.com and find nothing showing him as an All-American.  The best I could find was an All-MIAA honor in 1983. See here. Cbl62 (talk) 21:24, 21 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment He is not included in 1984 College Football All-America Team which seems to list the all American teams as chosen by the five selectors recognized as official by the National Collegiate Athletic Association. We would need a solid source showing that one of those five selectors chose him.
 * This article is getting harder and harder to take seriously. Now the source that showed that he didn't make the roster of the Falcons has been replaced by a claim that he is in the team's Hall of Infamy, cited to the team's Hall of Fame page that does not mention Heeres or any such Hall of Infamy. The same edit also makes unsourced claims that he is Jewish (it could be true, but we don't include such unsourced statements of Religion) and had Swastikas carved into his car at Hope College. The source for that claim is actually a report of a 2015 incident (three decades after Heeres was at Hope College) at a different college (Calvin) in a different town and involved finger writing in snow rather than carving. Of course, Heeres is not mentioned. Meters (talk) 20:33, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * 1984 College Football All-America Team only lists Division I All-Americans, Heeres is in Division II. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 20:48, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Heeres actually played for a Division III program. Even if he were a Division III All-American (and I find nothing backing that up in contemporaneous newspapers), there is no presumption of notability under WP:NCOLLATH for such lower-tier selections. Cbl62 (talk) 21:17, 21 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete playing at even the highest level of college foootball is rarely enough to make one notable on its own. Playing for Hope College, virtually never, and there is nothing to suggest Heeres is an exception.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:24, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete although no reason needs to be given to remove a WP:PROD, we have ample reasons here to delete the article. I agree with those noted above and add that the last section "later in life" seems to violate WP:ADV.--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:13, 22 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.