Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greninja


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was ‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__Keep. That is "Do Not Delete". There is not a clear consensus that this should be a separate article rather than covered as part of the list at List of generation VI Pokémon, but further discussion can also take place at the article talk page. Eluchil404 (talk) 22:47, 22 September 2023 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

Greninja

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Greninja has obviously been mentioned across wide sources in some way, but the depth and relevance of those sources as significant coverage is the issue. Article's receotion were mostly filled with listicle-type articles. Unfortunately, valnet source like this doesn't help its notability, an IGN source, which seemed to be looking good (title alone) of the impact, but turns out to only be a sentence in another listicle-type article, while this one  just talks about Greninja winning the poll, that's it (user-based fan polls doesn't add substance in establishing notability). Others were obvious trivia. Def having a hard time to find more usable coverage per BEFORE. Greenish Pickle!  (🔔) 12:17, 7 September 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 06:10, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Video games. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:15, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak keep The current sourcing in the article is lackluster. However, there appear to be multiple SIGCOV available. First of all, the Game Informer article is entirely about Greninja. Second of all this Kotaku article has a section talking about Greninja's importance for the last 2 paragraphs. This Hardcore Gamer article has a decent analysis of the three final evolutions of X and Y starters, including Greninja. Because of Greninja's unusual prominence in the anime and Smash, I think it is probably squeaking past notability. I would argue this is a WP:NOTCLEANUP situation. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:51, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete - Honestly, Zxcvbnm’s source analysis actually supports my rationales for deletion. The Game Informer article, probably the best and most focused source on Greninja itself, is about him as a playable character in one specific fighting game, not as a whole. The other two mentions I don’t feel rise to the level of actually significant coverage because they don’t focus on Greninja, and per my essay, I feel the only reason an article exists of this now is because the text is fluffed and truly significant coverage isn’t there to support a well-written article.   Red Phoenix  talk  17:18, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, there’s a better alternative to deletion here. Redirect to List of generation VI Pokémon, for the same rationale.  Red Phoenix  talk  18:27, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak Redirect Eh, I mean there are supported partials in the article. Most add up to trivia as the nom has pointed out. However, the List of generation VI Pokémon Greninja section provides a lot of details to it, so that's more appropriate than outright deletion. Conyo14 (talk) 21:47, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per sources from Zx. I agree that what's there is rather weak, but I think it's enough to justify a separate split, if barely. Pokelego999 (talk) 01:43, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per sources from User:Zxcvbnm above, etc. Seems to have enough notability and coverage in reliable secondary sources, just needs a little bit of improving. Paintspot Infez (talk) 00:05, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep Greninja has been covered in some level of detail by reliable sources as demonstrated by Zxcvbnm. Also, I think the fact that the Pokémon has topped multiple fan polls and gotten media coverage for doing so (including from USA Today) is significant. At the very least, this is something that distinguishes Greninja from most other Pokemon. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 01:21, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. The subject seems to currently have some decent sources that help the subject meet general notability, but compared to other well-established Pokémon monster articles the Greninja’s source variety is lacking. I’m mainly looking at the Reception section for general notability, and the content and flow there seems passable, yet deserving of further improvements. We can’t just ditch an entire article just because it barely meets general notability. Qwertyxp2000 (talk &#124; contribs) 23:23, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep as the sources demonstrate notability, especially in the reception section, which is the most important as it's the least in universe section. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 01:18, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete/Redirect I'm really confused that people are !voting keep after reviewing the sources. This Game Informer article is almost devoid of usable coverage. It reads: "Earlier in the week, I played Super Smash Bros. with Little Mac, but he proved not to be my best character. But the Nintendo frantic character fighter is so entertaining that I just couldn't stay away, and I went back to the well to find another fighter that would fit more with my style. I landed on the character Greninja. I'm clearly really good with him; I'm currently undefeated with him." The article goes on giving a WP:GAMEGUIDE style description of all its abilities, and concludes with "Just don't try to play against me while I'm playing Greninja; I'm undefeated (so if you're good I'll probably pick a different character for fear of breaking my streak)." This isn't significant coverage. Shooterwalker (talk) 03:36, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe you're looking at the wrong part of the article. The article gives this bit towards its start, namely, "The final evolved form of Froakie fits right into the rest of the Super Smash Bros. cast, because he's a fun and fast character with a lot of great moves." which does describe the character's role in game, and sure, the author gets cocky, but the author clearly is enjoying the Greninja character and is giving him a positive review for his appearance in the game. I'd say it qualifies.
 * I would also state that the other sources we have are pretty solid as well. Just going by Zx's sources, the Kotaku article gives some coverage discussing the author's thoughts on Greninja's appearance in the Pokemon anime. "Ash had one as part of his team, which had the bonkers ability to Battle Bond—which is to say, it could merge its consciousness with Ash to form the imaginatively named Ash-Greninja, a half-Ash, half-Pokémon monstrosity that should have been killed with fire." and "But will it appear during Ash’s final 11-episode run on the anime? I honestly couldn’t care less."
 * The Hardcore Gamer article gives some analysis of the character in competitive (Which isn't too helpful for Wikipedia) but it does give some personal thoughts on the character. As Zx said, it's a bit brief, but it is decent coverage on the subject.
 * As for other sources already in the article, some examples of decent sourcing include Greninja's popularity poll ranking being covered by several sources, which gives significant coverage of the subject. The Ibtimes article does give a good blurb on Greninja, "Picking from the latest collection of pocket monsters was tricky – proving that Game Freak really stuck gold here. No debate was required for Greninja however, who has proved an instant classic."
 * I haven't performed a personal search for sources myself, but I definitely concur with editors that it's a bit weak compared to say, Snorlax. In any case though, I'd say it's just barely meeting the requirements for notability and significant coverage here, just from what's in the article alone. Pokelego999 (talk) 01:54, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I’d like to add that Greninja’s appearance in the anime has gotten media coverage . While we’ve been focusing on the games, there’s another part of the franchise that Greninja has racked up multiple sources in. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 03:45, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Weak keep per sources found by Zxcvbnm. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:03, 22 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.