Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Griffin de Luce


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. &mdash; Cirt (talk) 16:30, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Griffin de Luce

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In some ways I want to say this is a hoax, but at the very best, he is not a notable businessperson. What makes this difficult is he goes by "Sean Lucey" early in his career and "Griffin de Luce" later on. At age 24, one reference says he is a writer at MacWEEK. I can find nothing else that he was a writer there. At age 26, he is CEO of Gryphon Group. The reference is to a review on Cnet. However, the company is long gone and I found only two references to the company.

Fast forward. A reference given to him being the "biggest mac fanboy". Reference doesn't mention him and the video given doesn't mention him in the credits. Says he was CTO, president and founder for Strike.TV. There is an IMDB ref saying the same thing. But, if you goto the website, he isn't mentioned. Website hasn't been updated since 2008.

Fast forward. Now he is called Griffin de Luce. Here is his webpage. He is founder of MetaSamurai.com that also does appletoday.com. Nothing in searches on those sites except the from sites themselves. Also claims to be CTO of LexusHybridLiving.com (nothing found), Green.org (not a real website) and Solar.com (it is run by a different company than Luce's). Bgwhite (talk) 21:33, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions.  —Bgwhite (talk) 21:37, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 23:18, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - I can find no significant coverage about this person. The sourcing in the article is somewhat problematic, and the claims for notability perhaps a little exaggerated.  For example, the article claims he developed "the first secure web-based file storage operating system in 1996", but the sourcing provided shows that it really isn't an operating system, and doesn't even support the claim that he was first, or indeed that he developed it. -- Whpq (talk) 13:40, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

NOTE FROM SUBMITTER: Please note: the entry has been updated with additional references which address the comments and questions of Whpq and Bgwhite.

Primary additions include an article from WebWEEK which quotes Jerry Michalski about the Acquire product. Mr. Michaelski (who served as managing editor of Release 1.0) notes that the product was new and novel in his opinion. The quote is from WebWeek 10-21-96.

A Strike.TV reference will be forthcoming, however if you direct your attention to the reference that is CURRENTLY listed VARIETY: http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117988436?refCatId=1009 ) you will find de Luce listed among the other founders.

The assertion that the subject is not mentioned on AppleToday.com is incorrect. The main page of the site states: "Brought to you by Griffin de Luce, Founder & Publisher"

References to Green.org, Solar.com and LexusHybridLiving.com have been removed until references can be found.

At this time the article MORE THAN SATISFIES the requirement that "all biographies of living persons created after March 18, 2010, must have at least one source that directly supports material in the article." This article contains references to VARIETY, WebWEEK, MacWEEK, BoingBoing, AppleToday.com and CNET.

Finally, the article is NOT A HOAX as posited by bgwhite. Rather, Mr. de Luce changed his name when he sold TGG.COM to J Walter Thompson and moved West to work in Hollywood, CA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sundogsakai (talk • contribs) 10:26, 15 July 2011 (UTC) 
 * Comment - I note that the claim for being "the first secure web-based file storage operating system in 1996" has been removed and replaced with a much weaker statement indicating it was one many http-based file storage products. There were many being created at the time and being first to market isn't a big deal from a notability standpoint.  And in any case, the article is about the product and not about de Luce. -- Whpq (talk) 13:10, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Per WP:GNG — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noformation (talk • contribs)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, causa sui (talk) 03:24, 18 July 2011 (UTC)




 * Delete, not notable and no real proof of the extent of his claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JMS Old Al (talk • contribs)
 * CommentSundog, a single reference is required but not sufficient for an article about a person. WP:NOTABLE applies and this subject does not seem to meet notability guidelines.  N o f o rmation  Talk  21:16, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ReplyNoformation, upon which guideline do you determine that the individual falls outside the definition of notable? Regarding your comment about Acquire, could you please let us know which competing product you are referring to as preceding it? The editors of WebWEEK and CNET were not aware of a competing commercial product and felt that Mr. de Luce was notable enough and the product important enough to interview him. WP:NOTABLE 18 July 2011  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sundogsakai (talk • contribs) 23:04, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * comment - The other products are irrelevant. The webweek article about Acquire, and not about De Luce. -- Whpq (talk) 01:19, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Reply Well let's start with a quote from WP:NOTABLE: "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." Is this subject significantly covered? Here are my takes on the sources:
 * Webweek article is not about him, it's about a product and since webweek doesn't appear to exist anymore, I can't even ascertain its importance as a source (but again, since it's not about him it doesn't matter).
 * I don't know what this text document is but it's not an WP:RS and it doesn't talk about the subject anyway.
 * This reference is again, about the product, not the man. It mentions the Gryphon Group but it is not about the person in question and so it isn't an WP:RS for claims made about the subject
 * Source 4 isn't about the subject either
 * Appletoday is (i)not talking about the subject and (ii) a primary source and so would likely not count even if it did have an article about the subject
 * boingboing source also isn't about the subject
 * Last ref isn't about the subject (though it does mention him).


 * As such, there is not "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject," and hence it does not pass WP:NOTABLE. If you can find 3 or 4 articles about de Luce then that is a different story, but I can not seem to locate them myself. Being mentioned in passing doesn't count either, btw, de Luce should be the subject of the sources if he is to be the subject of an article here. Thanks.  N o f o rmation  Talk  02:12, 19 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Reply to JMS Old Al Your comment "no real proof of the extent of his claims" lowers the level of discussion by being overly general as well as subjective. If you insist upon adding your voice, please be specific about your own claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sundogsakai (talk • contribs) 23:09, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The point I believe JMS is trying to make is that we have no way of verifying if what you've written in the article is true because none of the sources you've provided back up the claims about de Luce. For instance, what source states that he is systems theorist?  Which one says he lives near Lake Tahoe? Which one says he consulted for Time Warner?  On WP, all facts need to be able to be verifiable, it literally points that out on every edit page.  I've also noticed that you have a connection to the subject, which I pointed out on your talk page.  Did you read the WP:COI information I left you?  N o f o rmation  Talk  02:18, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Btw, here is my reasoning for thinking you have a conflict of interest: GHits for "Sundog Sakai" + "Griffin de Luce". I'm guessing you're his photographer or you help with internet presence or something?  I don't know, but with this strong of a connection you really should tread carefully with the subject.  N o f o rmation  Talk  02:22, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.