Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Grigoris Koukotsikas


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Spartaz Humbug! 16:29, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Grigoris Koukotsikas

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This person is only mentioned in a speech of a politician, and speeches of politicians are not reliable sources, nor they are enough to prove the notability of people. Couldn't find any reliable sources on the topic, enough to prove the notability. Seksen iki yüz kırk beş (talk) 12:15, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete See above for his wife Alexia --AJHingston (talk) 13:17, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep meets WP:GNG. There are many references in the Greek language media that confirm notability when checking for alternate spellings of his surname.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 14:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Still it is not confirmed by reliable, non-Greek or non-politician sources, unlike Eleni Foka. Moreover, I wonder whether any further information can be found on this person, as AJHingston has said. --Seksen iki yüz kırk beş (talk) 14:19, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Aren't 10 references enough for you?  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 01:24, 9 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment Why are there two articles? Edison (talk) 15:03, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:BLP1E. Also lacks demonstration of substantial coverage in multiple reliable and independent sources, as required by WP:N. Also delete per WP:NOTNEWS, even if the politician's speech was echoed by the newspapers for a news cycle. Getting mentioned by a politician does not demonstrate notability. Known only for being displaced from one's home? Not notable. Edison (talk) 15:03, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Have added a number of sources since you made your recommendation. Moreover, not just known for being displaced from his home. He was a schoolteacher, one of only three schoolteachers at the only school for the Greek community in Northern Cyprus, who was prevented from returning to the school that they teach at by the occupation regime.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 15:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The Cypriot Financial Mirror newspaper has recorded that as recently as September 2008, the government of Northern Cyprus has prevented schoolteachers from returning to the primary school in Rizokarpaso. This is not about Koukotsikas. Those references are unreliable as I can see. Rizokarpason.com is a commercial website, and as it says "For a free Rizokarpaso", its obvious POV can be seen at the very first place. Makarios Drousiotis is not a reliable source either, and he even says "The enslaved at Karpas", his POV is obvious. Typos.com.cy also looks like an unreliable source in this case. And this article is still against WP:BLP1E, Being in the news does not in itself mean that someone should be the subject of a Wikipedia article. If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event, and if that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual, we should generally avoid having an article on them. Biographies in these cases can give undue weight to the event and conflict with neutral point of view. This person is only in the context of one single event, the couple did not take the issue to the ECHR etc., and this event was reported in the news, naturally, but was not covered so widely. And being a schoolteacher does not make someone notable. --Seksen iki yüz kırk beş (talk) 16:19, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Being one of only three Greek primary schoolteachers who is prevented from teaching at the only Greek community primary school by a Turkish occupation government is notable. The Financial Mirror article shows that the problem that this teacher suffered was not an isolated incident and is relevant. Rizokarpason.com is not a commercial website (it is a community website using a .com domain name). You claim that Typos.com.cy "also looks like an unreliable source" (that is POV). Makarios Drousiotis is a professional journalist and he is perfectly within his rights in calling the people of Rizokarpos enslaved since they have continuously suffered under the occupation regime (including censorship of what schoolbooks that they could use, including unvoluntary slave labor see Human rights in Northern Cyprus, and the population of Rizokarpaso which was 20,000 after the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974 has dwindled down to a couple of hundred because of the restrictions and hardships inflicted upon them the Turkish occupation government, which has discriminated against them to force them to leave the occupied territory. The issue was raised at the European Parliament and has been translated in to all European languages. Moreover, his wife is also a teacher at the same school and was also prevented from returning to the Rizokarpaso enclave thus preventing the "right of education" to Greek Cypriot schoolchildren in occupied northern Cyprus. What happened to this school teacher and his wife, who is also a schoolteacher, cannot be described as a single event since Turkey has systematically prevented Greek schoolteachers from going to Rizokarpaso in order to assimilate what is left of the Greek population.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 16:43, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment The Cause may be just, the injustice may be terrible, but Wikipedia is not a soapbox to argue for one's cause if there is a lack of secondary reliable and independent sources. Edison (talk) 18:05, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no lack of secondary reliable and independent sources and easily meets WP:GNG. I am not soapboxing and you have failed to explain why you think WP:BLP1E applies.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 01:22, 9 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Redirect and Merge content to Enclaved Greek Cypriots, and do the same thing for Eleni Foka and Alexia Koukotsikas. I agree with Edison that WP:BLP1E applies. --Doktor Plumbi (talk) 17:16, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hold your horses. Even Seksen agrees that Eleni Foka meets WP:GNG and is entitled to her own article. She's been interviewed on Sky television about how she was treated when she crossed the border and about the court case at the European Court of Human Rights. There are ten times more references and sources concerning Eleni Foka than the Koukotsikas. You should reconsider your recommendation.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 20:36, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Moreover, Re: The issues raised by WP:BLP1E are Neutral point of view (WP:NPOV) [which it most certainly is]; Verifiability (WP:V) (which it most certainly has) and there is No original research WP:NOR. So where are the Koukotsikas articles falling foul of WP:BLP1E. Please be specific.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 21:04, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I really do not think that most of the sources in this article are reliable, and your claims are not enough to prove that they are reliable, at least neutral. And I really do not think that these two articles can be expanded more. If they are expanded, the content will be irrelevant. And Eleni Foka seems to have 19 times more sources than the Koukotsikas, in which there are the Parliament of the UK and the ECHR, so she seems to be more likaly to be notable than the Koukotsikas, although I have not had a detailed look at that issue. --Seksen iki yüz kırk beş (talk) 19:55, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Seksen, your comment has not added anything to this "Redirect and Merge" discussion and you are repeating comments that you have already made. I would like to contribute the following. Since the content of the Alexia Koukotsikas and Grigoris Koukotsikas articles are almost identical I would like to suggest that the two are merged in to one Alexia and Grigoris Koukotsikas article. I would have done this myself if you had not rushed in to AfD when I started writing these articles.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 01:06, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Cyprus-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:34, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:35, 6 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete per ONEEVENT. Famous for being a Greek in Northern Cyprus who was unable to return there, rather than any individual notability. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 12:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * See my response to Chipmunkdavis above in Alexia Koukotsikas AfD.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 13:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Summary of my response: This person is famous for a single event. Article should redirect to a general article, eg Human rights in Northern Cyprus. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 14:04, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.