Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Guiding Hand Social Club


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. Secret account 22:19, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Guiding Hand Social Club

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Reason: Not notable to the general public, exagerated claims of real world fiscal value. Alatari (talk) 04:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Um, what is your reason? Ten Pound Hammer  • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 04:41, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Reason was lost in back page editing cache. Alatari (talk) 04:48, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, no real claims to notability. Ten Pound Hammer  • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 05:02, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete: Non notable, not to mention poorly sourced. - Rjd0060 (talk) 05:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep: Both the guild and its actions featured in articles in niche and mainstream printed publications, as well as a variety of online news sources. As for whether or not the real world value was exaggerated, that is a point for a criticisms subsection, not a reason for deletion. NTRabbit (talk) 05:31, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge with Griefer article. These are all the notable sources I could find (someone failed to do their homework): http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/worldsinmotion.biz/2007/11/the_gray_area_in_governance.php http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/joystiq.com/tag/TeamKillers http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/igniq.com/2005/12/16500-eve-online-heist.html http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_19/121-A-Deadly-Dollar.2 http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/pc.gamespy.com/pc/eve-online-the-path-to-kali/726643p1.html http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/jun/15/games.guardianweeklytechnologysection2 Alatari (talk) 06:30, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Alatari, speaking of homework, although I can appreciate Alexa operating as a cache, none of those links show you anything but the standard traffic details page for the linked site. SOme kind of browser frame issue, I imagine. --Dhartung | Talk 07:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment It can be confusing: Press the green link under the web site's name on the Alexa results page to see the original source page. I give them in Alexa format to rank the site's user base. This kind of sourcing is used in the Category:WikiProject Video games for evaluating the significance of an external link and source.  Alatari (talk) 08:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge but to EVE Online. It's both a widely known example of griefing and a significant historical event in the EVE universe, but ultimately more about the latter (since griefing takes different forms depending on game mechanics or loopholes). The Escapist article, for instance, is centrally about the GHSC event, but in bulk content more about griefing in general. And the griefer club really isn't notable beyond this; it's sort of a WP:ORG1E problem. But it's a valid search term and there are sources, so we can put that in an article where it's most appropriate. --Dhartung | Talk 07:13, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Do not merge to EVE Online. They're notable for a single heist out of thousands in the game's history; not worth a section--at most a single-sentence mention.  A merge isn't necessary for a single sentence.  They weren't the largest (EIB, most likely, or the recent BoB corptheft), or the first (Morbor's pyramid scheme), nor were they by much of a margin the most publicized. — Da rk •S hik ari [T] 08:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - the references in EVE Online is more than sufficent to highlight the event, as Dark Shikari stated scams happen in EVE every day, it is impractical and unencyclopaedic to list each and every scam as a seperate article. -- Richard Slater  (About) / (Talk) 13:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, reluctantly: seems to be an entirely in-game event, and apparently the developers of that game consider this sort of play to be normative. The sources given seem generally not to be reliable within the meaning of our policy. (One more game to scratch off the list of things to try.)  It isn't really a good example of griefing - "Serenity Now" disrupting an in-game funeral of a World of Warcraft character whose player died in real life strikes me as even more despicable and notorious - since apparently both the rules and atmosphere of the game in question allow this sort of thing.  Belongs on the Eve Online wiki, if there is one. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 15:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete: What they did, essentially, was to move all of the things which their corp had in a 'free for all members' inventory into their own personal inventories, then gank the corp leader, destroying her ship and causing her to respawn elsewhere. Every corp I have been a member of has suffered from the former and the latter... well I think he highest I've seen is around 200 times in one place in an hour.81.178.78.226 13:17, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep: They are noteworthy IMO. There are a lot more obscure things on Wikipedia213.214.57.217 (talk) 02:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)Hicham Vanborm
 * comment Just because there are other bad pages is no argument for keeping another bad page. What's the WP link for this, I've forgotten. Alatari (talk) 04:19, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS Ryanjunk (talk) 17:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep:Guiding Hand Social Club were featured in such publications as new scientist, when discussing emerging behavior in MMOs. Both noteworthy and important. Adqam (talk) 17:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep:Good note on the social interactions in MMOs as well as a part of 'net history that is still talked about today on MMO scenes, in addition to the publications provided. A merge, might be acceptable however, if it does not had more bloat to an article and is easily referenced by other articles as an example of MMO social dynamic. RogueTrick (talk) 23:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Note to closing admin: This swarm of meatpuppets is coming from posts like this calling on people to spam keep votes. — Da rk •S hik ari [T] 07:42, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been listed on the talk page for WikiProject Massively multiplayer online games. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 14:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - Of the only three references, the first is a press release by the game producers; the other two are simply links to Wikipedia articles which, of course, are not reliable sources!! Other than that this is an unsourced in-universe page. TerriersFan (talk) 21:46, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.