Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gwyn Ashton (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. The only alternative would be no consensus, which still keeps the article. Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 02:28, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Gwyn Ashton
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

A large majority of this page is not cited. The only citation is from the website of the subject. The other archived citation does not appear to mention or be related to the subject. I believe this biography has been self published as it is largely plagiarised from the subject's own event listings: https://www.eventfinda.com.au/2020/gwyn-ashton/melbourne/thornbury

This article has other multiple issues: The topic of this article does not meet Wikipedia's notability guideline for music. (May 2023)

This biography of a living person needs citations for verification, as its only attribution is to self-published sources; articles should not be based solely on such sources. (May 2023)

This biography of a living person needs additional citations for verification. — Preceding unsigned comment added by V260z (talk • contribs) 12:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Wales,  and Australia.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:02, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete: Just not enough coverage to be found. This was the best in a RS, simply a concert listing. A few hits on this site ; not listed in Wiki Project Albums as a reliable source... I don't see SIGCOV for this musician. Oaktree b (talk) 14:37, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete: Nothing in the article passes notability per WP:MUSICBIO, seems like mostly support slots and obscure festival appearances. InDimensional (talk) 23:07, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 *  Weak keep, I found a few sources that may be reliable:
 * It's Psychedelic Baby! Magazine - extended interview
 * Australian Musician - review
 * Australian Musician - short article
 * Australian Musician - extended feature
 * ABC (Australia) - profile
 * I am unfamiliar with It's Psychedelic Baby! Magazine and Australian Musician, but the Wikipedia articles on these publications indicate a level of credibility. The BBC link in the 'External sources' section of the article is in archive.org, but it is too short to be useful. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:17, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Please see the first nomination and the version kept after the first nomination. Several sources have been removed from the article since then, and I have found three of them in archive.org:
 * CD Baby - review
 * CD Baby - short review
 * Bluescat - review
 * This is sufficient for me to upgrade by opinion from 'weak keep' to 'keep'. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:40, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the links Verbcatcher. Can I please point out that a majority of these links are profiles which the artist themselves uploads info on. These are not independent articles. For instance the ABC (Australia) link is a Triple J site where local musicians can create their own profile and upload their own bio, photos and 2x songs. This is the same with CD Baby, which is a platform you upload your own music onto, again writing your own bio.
 * The Bluescat review seems very obscure. The review is amongst dozens of other albums listed and doesn't seem to make sense, maybe it is a translated review?
 * The Australian Musician review describes a small outback pub performance in Australia and the Australian musician articles seem to mostly list actual well known people this artist has met or paid to meet. V260z (talk) 11:28, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Pinging the editors who contributed to the previous discussion: Verbcatcher (talk) 21:53, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep the artist has released at least two albums, has been a member of notable bands, has toured both Australia and other nations. I've added some content and refs (some mentioned above) as well as his AllMusic entry (from ELs). Passes WP:MUSICBIO.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:41, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * These citations you've added most have nothing to do with the subject.
 * Examples:
 * Reference 1: Does not even load a page. This has been used to reference his birthplace and date.
 * Reference 2: Displays 1 sentence from an Australian rural news site and states a time and place the artist is performing for one concert in 2007. This has been used to reference his birth place and date in the article?
 * Reference 3: Is actually 2x references and is an unrelated Swedish Casino site. This has been used to cite other artists the subject has allegedly performed with.
 * Reference 5: Is an article about Fleetwood Mac. It is used to cite the subject almost joined Fleetwood Mac, yet no such occurrence is mentioned in the article.
 * A majority of these other added references are simply a listing of one of his albums and a track list.
 * Notability criteria requirements:
 * 1. Appears in non trivial published works which are reliable. Not including press releases or articles in which the subject talks about themselves. (for example reference 4) The referenced articles that are not casino sites or self published are interviews of the subject talking about themselves.
 * Your analysis here is faulty. Two of the AllMusic refs describe the artist and reveiw an album. Neither are interviews or casino sites.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:00, 22 March 2024 (UTC)10:01, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * 2. Had a single or album in the charts of any country. No charting single or album cited.
 * 3. Had a gold record in at least one country. No citation of a gold record award. Not listed on RIAA website.
 * 4. Has received non trivial coverage of at least one international concert tour. No independent coverage of a major international tour.
 * 5. Released 2x records on a major record label. You mentioned this, but none of those albums were released through Warner, Universal, Sony or any majors. No, they are not signed to any major or significant label. They are self published works.
 * 6. This doesn't apply to the subject as he is a solo artist.
 * 7. Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city. Seems to be a nomad, not part of any "particular city's scene"
 * 8. Has won a Grammy award or similar. Not listed on Grammy nominations website.
 * 9. Has won first, second, or third place in a MAJOR music competition. No, haven't seen any awards.
 * 10.Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, such as a theme for a network television show. No, haven't seen cited work used in media.
 * 11. Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network. No evidence of radio airplay. - No, haven't seen evidence of radio play.
 * 12. Has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or television network. - No, haven't seen any Television segments. V260z (talk) 02:06, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I dispute your analysis of some refs.
 * Loads fine for me. AGF?
 * One sentence? Whole article is on the subject. Rural news site? As part of Fairfax Media it was accessible Australia-wide.
 * Swedish casino site? You're probably looking at its original url, which had been hi-jacked long ago. Archived url should take you to database site. This confirms membership of Swanee and Stevie Wright Band.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:01, 22 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I fully agree that the article has a lot of problems, but still think the subject is notable, so maybe improving the article would be better than deleting it? I created the article back then because I was impressed when I saw him at a festival, but I haven't followed him closely, and I won't throw a tantrum if the article is deleted. Thanks for thinking of me. -- Syzygy (talk) 11:37, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla  Ohhhhhh, no! 06:58, 26 March 2024 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   16:56, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep as has significant coverage in multiple reliable sources such as Australian Musician, an AllMusic staff written bio and others, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 00:14, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep based on current articles such as Australian Musician and AllMusic review, subject would meet WP:MUSICBIO.Royal88888 (talk) 02:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete for lack of WP:SIGCOV. It's far from the worst article I've seen, and I wouldn't be shocked if there were a couple pre-internet news articles somewhere that could let it scrape by, but what we have, and what I can find, are short of independent coverage that would be needed for an article. I have doubts that Australian Musician has sufficient fact checking expertise to warrant consideration as a reliable source, and the best of the rest of the sources are just interviews or brief concert promos or reviews. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  03:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Upon an attempt to find out more on artist, found a post on subject's Facebook page asking for help to save this page, asking others to edit page and nominate page for keeping on his behalf, in addition to comments mentioning he wrote his own article. I suggest this article be marked as a COI, whilst being considered for deletion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by V260z (talk • contribs) 16:42, 9 April 2024 (UTC) Relisting comment: Final relist. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:38, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment: I read the FB post but find no evidence to support your assertion "in addition to comments mentioning he wrote his own article." Furthermore, article's Revision history has it created on 17 December 2007‎ by User:Syzygy, who still edits on WP periodically. However, his contributions to this article currently sits at 2.3%. shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep I see no notability issues here. An allmusic staff bio is always a good sign - and a check on proquest shows many hits.  See for example  and  and .  At minimum easily meets WP:BASIC. ResonantDistortion 17:57, 15 April 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.