Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Habib Tanious Shartouni


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was  keep. John254 00:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Habib Tanious Shartouni

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Article about a living(?) person which, without a single source, makes allegations of murder. Azate (talk) 11:32, 23 February 2008 (UTC) 1) A BBS of www.lebanese-forces.org, 2) A book review from www.thenation.com 3) A geocities.com userpage 4) A link farm, spock.com 5) A www.canadafreepress.com article, which uses Wikipeadia as its source, 6) www.bachirgemayel.org, problematic, because the is the guy who was assassinated, 7) antiwrinklecream.beautytipstoday.com (!) 8) An amazon.com book review, title: "A dubious, historically inaccurate screed" (reviewing the same book as 2), afaiks) 9) xenosparadox.blogspot.com, some blog 10) www.zionism-israel.com, not exactly a major newssource either 11) portal.sawtbeirut.com, a private lebanese internet radio 12) a mirror of an indymedia.com article, which moreover claims: "assassination was pinned on Habib Tanious Shartouni" 13) www.irazoo.com, another link farm 14) www.spiritus-temporis.com, link farm 15) www.zindamagazine.com: Quote "[Gemayel, the victim] was killed in a bomb blast planted and set off by Habib Tanious Shartouni, a member of the pro-Damascus National Syrian Socialist Party which favored the merger of Syria, Lebanon, and Palastine. According to Washington Post only Bashir Gemayel's prominent nose, the dimple on his chin, and his hexagonal wedding ring could be identified from his remains." (!!!)
 * Keep. plenty of sources, and notable for assassinating a coutry's president-elect. -- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 18:35, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. I meant that there are no sources in the Wikipeadia article. Now about your link (google): The first 15 hits are:

These are ultra-lousy sources indeed! I have no dog in this fight. I don't even get exactly who claims what or denies something else. The only thing I see is that the allegations against Habib Tanious Shartouni involve a good amount of Lebanese and Mideastern conspiracy, mud-slinging and party-politics. These are murky waters. Where is a decent source? Azate (talk) 15:40, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. Most murderers aren't notable, but he committed a major political assassination. Pburka (talk) 19:11, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. I don't think that these sources or these can be dismissed quite so easily. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:22, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * keep highly notable individaul as pointed out by Phil directly above me. I'm a bit concerned by the systemic bias indicated by this nomination. I don't think for example that we would have thought of AfDing John Wilkes Booth. JoshuaZ (talk) 20:33, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. What systemic bias?? The very first sentence of WP:DEL says: "Reasons for deletion include [...] unreferenced negative content in biographies of living persons.". This article has ZERO references.Azate (talk) 23:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, let me use my perennial example; if the article about John Hinkley had zero references in it would you be nominating it for deletion? JoshuaZ (talk) 23:51, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. While I do remember that somebody tried to shoot Reagan, I would have been unable to remember the name. Moreover, when presented with the name John Hinkley in isolation, I'd have been unable to say who he was. Not everybody lives in the U.S., where, I assume, his name is more widely known. Same with Shartouni. I remember that Gemayel was shot, but Shartouni's name is alien to me. Without good references (let alone none at all), the prudent thing to do is to distrust the article. The list of first-result Google hits above would only strengthen my suspicion, that the article may be wildly off the mark. What if you encountered an article that claims (unreferenced) that Mormon assassins shot Reagan? I'm sure you'd have Google hits of a quality similar the the Shartouni ones. Azate (talk) 00:52, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.