Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hallelujah Day


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Lourdes 16:21, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Hallelujah Day

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Seems like a non-notable song. Previously deleted and is back. Fails WP:NSONG. A redirect, maybe? William2001(talk) 01:15, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I would like to emphasize that while NSONG does mention being ranked on a national chart, it also makes it clear that the chart alone cannot be the sole indicator of notability. Thank you. William2001(talk) 12:48, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. North America1000 01:17, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. North America1000 01:17, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 07:26, 9 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The previously deleted article was about a holiday, not a song. Uncle G (talk) 08:11, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know; I guess I relied too much on the page curation notices. I still think that the song doesn't meet WP:NSONG. William2001(talk) 21:33, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Redirect Passes NSONG as the song definitely charted on accepted national list in Austria (and perhaps other countries). As the nomination was off the failed SNG, will thus presume notability. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:25, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Changed to redirect in light of the work Aoba did below. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:03, 15 July 2019 (UTC)


 * keep: song ranked #12 on a national chart, passes #1 of WP:NSONG Ceethekreator (talk) 12:38, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment Thanks for your suggestions. I agree that the song is ranked #12 on the chart, but according to WP:NSONG, I don't think that itself makes the song notable (it may be notable). I would like to see some significant coverage on this song. Thanks. <b style="color:#556B2F">William2001</b>(<b style="color:#008080">talk</b>) 18:58, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * We're talking about a song from 1996 so notability establishing sources might only exist offline. This is part of the reason that the presumption of notability from a SNG has some value in my mind. I admit I have not done a full look into finding sources that may exist online. But I did invest effort into establishing that it meets NSONG such that I can say it "Seems like a notable song. Passes NSONG. An article for improvement, maybe?" I'm very open to the argument that something which nominally passes a SNG is not actually notable, but as you didn't understand . However, I don't see you making that case especially as you didn't address the fact that it charted on a chart recognized by NSONG in your nomination. I am more than willing to change my !vote in an AfD based on evidence but from the evidence I'm seeing suggests notability. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 19:54, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep - per WP:NSONG per peak 12 on the national chart. BabbaQ (talk) 12:14, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your !vote, but again, NSONG makes it clear that ranking on the national chart itself is not sufficient. From NSONG: "Has been ranked on national or significant music or sales charts. (Note again that this indicates only that a song may be notable, not that it is notable.)" <b style="color:#556B2F">William2001</b>(<b style="color:#008080">talk</b>) 00:32, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * This is a high ranking song on a national chart. Even within the Top20. Sorry, but this is a clear cut Keep article per Wikipedias own standards set in guidelines.BabbaQ (talk) 10:14, 15 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Born in Africa (Dr. Alban album). Charting is one sign of a song's notability, but it would still need to receive coverage from third-party reliable sources. I disagree with the keep votes because the chart information could easily be merged into the parent article about the album. Offline sources may exist, but I could not find anything through Google or Newspapers.com. It is a valid search term so I think a redirect would be better than outright deletion. Aoba47 (talk) 01:46, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * , thanks for doing this search. I don't have time at the moment to do my own search but this does provide evidence that a redirect might be appropriate. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 02:18, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Of course. Just trying to help out. Aoba47 (talk) 03:48, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * That it could be merged is a POV. Wikipedias own set guidelines are very specific here. This is a high ranking song on a national chart. BabbaQ (talk) 10:17, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * That is not correct. The following sentence is taken directly from WP:NSONG: (Any of the following factors suggest that a song or single may be notable enough that a search for coverage in reliable independent sources will be successful) and one of those factors is chart placement. The guideline is saying that chart placement may indicate that a song has received coverage from reliable independent sources, but it does not present chart placement as an absolute indicator of notability by itself. Here is another sentence from WP:NSONG (Notability aside, a standalone article is appropriate only when there is enough material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album), and that further proves that notability is proven entirely by coverage. If the chart placement is the only information about the song available in sources, then it would fall under the "articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album" part. Apologies for the long response, but the above statement is not accurate to Wikipedia policy. My merge vote is grounded entirely in policy and not POV (as the above editor falsely claims). Aoba47 (talk) 14:52, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Per ongoing disputes on both sourcing and interpretation of NSONG

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nosebagbear (talk) 09:55, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * May I just point out that the article passes WP:NMUSIC, High (top20) Charting/peak at national chart trumps all POV. I still say Keep after review of article and this discussion.BabbaQ (talk) 18:33, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I literally just explained in my message above how the NSONG Wikipedia policy directly states that chart placement alone does not fully account for notability so again your POV claim is false. Aoba47 (talk) 22:25, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * If you believe the article is notable, then I would encourage you to find and list sources here that cover it to prove that it had received enough coverage for an independent article. I could not find anything, but I would be more than happy to change my vote if sources are produced here. Aoba47 (talk) 23:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Chilling (talk) 13:04, 23 July 2019 (UTC) Comment - has anyone been able to view Finnish/Swedish/Austrian entertainment industry periodicals from 1996, and come to the conclusion that the topic was not discussed? Are they available online? If not, then this is a textbook case of why we have notability guidelines other than GNG. It seems likely the song was discussed by independent, reliable sources *because* of the song's success on national charts. Across multiple countries. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 16:17, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I stand by my Keep !vote. The song reached Top20 in the official chart (place 12). And are well sourced and within WP:NMUSIC.BabbaQ (talk) 08:36, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect - such is my vote until actual reliable source coverage beyond chart listings are provided. If even one is provided, then ignore my vote.  starship .paint  (talk) 04:15, 31 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.