Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hand game


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Seddon talk 19:46, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Hand game

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Article dates back to 2004, but entirely unreferenced. As a topic, it seems like it might be something that's notable, but my own searching failed to find anything on which to base a WP:GNG-conformant article. As a navigational tool, this largely duplicates both Hand games and Category:Hand games, but the three are badly out of sync. Much of this list is WP:OR, i.e. "may be considered", "most likely variations", so at best would require WP:TNT.

See Talk:Hand game for the history of deletion discussions which predate WP:AFD. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:15, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:16, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep the term "hand game" comes up quite a bit in the Google Scholar search of the term referring to a wide variety of games in the category, so it's a term that's widely used by reliable sources. Among these hits are studies about hand games with autistic children and as a tool for early childhood education. There are also several lists referring to "games played with your hands" (although the reliability of these sources may be questionable). Taken together, however, I think it's enough to pass WP:NLIST Qwaiiplayer (talk) 14:55, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete for now given the unreferenced state. Qwaiiplayer search results are interesting, but I am not convinced the term is defined properly anywhere. And if it is, WP:TNT is really likely the solution here - blow up the current unreferenced OR stub/list, with no prejudice to this being recreated with proper sources etc. Ping me if as rewrite/sourcing happens during this AfD and I'll reconsider my vote. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:20, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * State of the article really isn't a deletion criteria. Hobit (talk) 15:00, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * keep sources have been shown to exist and I think this has the potential to be a really good article.  for example looks very very good. is also strong (though I'm unclear exactly what part of Dartmouth is publishing this).  This one looks like fun actually. Hobit (talk) 15:00, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , Your first link gets me "Server Error in '/' Application." when I click on it. :-( -- RoySmith (talk) 16:18, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Me too now, was there this morning.  is a text-only cached version.  I assume it will be back up sometime soon.  Main page works... Hobit (talk) 17:28, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, TheChronium  17:08, 2 June 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment - It seems from the sources presented here, as well as the list of games currently in this article, that there is a lot of crossover with Clapping games as a topic - that article even uses "hand game" as an alternate title for the concept. It seems like some sort of merging or restructuring of the articles to cover them under one topic might make sense, though I am not sure what the best way to go about it would be.  At the very least, the non-notable (i.e. non-blue linked) entries should be removed right away, as well as all of the entries here that clearly fail the criteria of being "played using only the hands of the players". Rorshacma (talk) 17:46, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it's fair to say that clapping games are a subset of hand games. A well-written article on the topic would have section on clapping games but mostly defer to the clapping games article on that issue.  Games like Chopsticks (game) would have a similar treatment.  It looks like there is a fair bit out there about the impact on socialization of these types of games.  So that too could be a nice section.  I do worry that the coverage of clapping games and other hand games *as a single thing* may be limited.  But I suspect we've got enough to get a good or featured article out of this. Hobit (talk) 04:29, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 15:57, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep There are lots publications on hand games in ethnomusicology and music education literature. Hand games of a variety of cultures are taught in general music classrooms, and their are curriculum books and materials on that literature in addition to many scholarly publications. A gooogle books search and google scholar search can easily identify sources of quality to meet WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 14:56, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. I added four sources and slightly expanded the article. A lot more could be written on this topic.4meter4 (talk) 15:21, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep This is also some sort of directory page as it has listed many hand games that have Wiki pages. Peter303x (talk) 00:07, 19 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.