Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Handball at the Goodwill Games


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Eddie891 Talk Work 19:14, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Handball at the Goodwill Games

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Current sourcing does not pass WP:GNG, has been redirected but reverted without improvement several times, was moved to draft, and returned without improvement, and so we are here.  Onel 5969  TT me 14:39, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: perfectly valid sub-article of Goodwill Games. "Handball at the Goodwill Games" doesn't need to meet GNG because "Goodwill Games" meets GNG, and putting all the Handball scores on one page makes sense. Alternatively, it could be distributed to 1986 Goodwill Games, 1990 Goodwill Games, and 1994 Goodwill Games, but organizing the scoring tables by sport instead of by year is a valid editorial choice. It's certainly better than having this info at the main Goodwill Games article. Compare Football at the Goodwill Games, Athletics at the Goodwill Games, Swimming at the Goodwill Games, and Figure skating at the Goodwill Games... I don't see a problem with sub-articles organized by sport. Levivich (talk) 17:00, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - Articles like these are basically lists or collections of information. There's no other way to really get this information altogether in one article, hence why we get these types of articles. The Goodwill Games are obviously major notable international events.KatoKungLee (talk) 17:20, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - per Levivich and KatoKungLee. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:36, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2023 March 24.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 18:00, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete see below I'm not a sports editor, and I don't get it. All we have is routine coverage (the news articles), a few primary refs to the organizers, and other primary/self-published refs to random sites. The articles in French, for each of the three editions, still have nothing but primary sources despite having been created years ago. That's not what we want on enWiki. Wikipedia is neither a database, nor a collection of information, and I don't understand why these articles get a pass. If this were any other subject, it'd be an uncontroversial delete. DFlhb (talk) 00:32, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If this were any other subject, I'd probably have !voted "delete" :-) But it's sports. You say you don't get it, so let me try to explain it, using "Athletics" as an example instead of "Handball":
 * Wikipedia articles about sports competitions should include the results of the competitions. Articles about Goodwill Games should say who won what. Hence, 1986 Goodwill Games has a table of medals.
 * Some sporting events, like the Goodwill Games, actually consist of many sports competitions in multiple sports. Listing a table of medals at the 1986 Goodwill Games doesn't tell the reader which sports those medals were for, or which specific competitions. If we listed all the sports and all the competitions, it would make the 1986 Goodwill Games article far too long. So, we split it up into multiple articles. For example, Athletics at the 1986 Goodwill Games gives more information about who won a medal for which athletics event, Gymnastics at the 1986 Goodwill Games does the same for gymnastics events.
 * So we have Athletics at the 1986 Goodwill Games, Athletics at the 1990 Goodwill Games, and Athletics at the 1994 Goodwill Games. I hope you are with me so far that those pages have a place on Wikipedia. That means we could also have pages like Handball at the 1986 Goodwill Games, Handball at the 1990 Goodwill Games, and Handball at the 1994 Goodwill Games.
 * It's perfectly reasonable to merge those three pages, Handball at the 1986 Goodwill Games, Handball at the 1990 Goodwill Games, and Handball at the 1994 Goodwill Games, into one page called Handball at the Goodwill Games. This is how Football at the Goodwill Games handles  it. Athletics and gymnastics had many events in each year; handball and football didn't have as many events and so could be merged into one article.
 * And that's why I !vote keep, even if "Handball at the Goodwill Games" doesn't meet GNG. (Although there is definitely some RS coverage for it, see e.g. GS results). Levivich (talk) 00:50, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I was secretly hoping someone would explain, so thanks :)Ultimately, I agree that WP:NOTINHERITED doesn't apply, since this is an editorial choice about where to put the tables, and they'd definitely overcrowd the main articles. I thought about similarly splitting out tech specs tables in WP:APPLE articles, and I get the benefit (also, I just realised that WP:NOTSTATS explicitly allows this, so I'll withdraw my vote). I guess I am an inclusionist at heart! DFlhb (talk) 01:17, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for this limpid explanation ! :-) LeFnake (talk) 12:47, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sports and Handball. Levivich (talk) 00:52, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep as improved. It's unfortunate that it took this level of dispute to spur the improvement, however. BD2412  T 16:00, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per improvements made, and while I'm aware this is well into "I Like It" territory, it seems useful as a catchall for mergers of non notable moments in Goodwill Games handball events. Star   Mississippi  23:32, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: In my opinion the article goes against WP:NOTSTATS for the moment. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 20:36, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, it would appear that NOTSTATS allows this. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:16, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep as necessary spin-out to avoid cluttering the main article. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:18, 29 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.