Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Handsworth F.C.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:29, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Handsworth F.C.

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Does not meet notability criteria - have not appeared in an FA competition. Kivo (talk) 12:29, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 19:44, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 19:44, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Northamerica1000(talk) 19:45, 20 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete or merge with Handsworth, South Yorkshire. As far as I can see it is a local amateur football club, playing many tiers down the hierarchy.  Peterkingiron (talk) 10:35, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Many amateur clubs are notable, and indeed some in the Sheffield and Hallamshire County Senior Football League are. Kivo (talk) 14:56, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Sheffield and Hallamshire County Senior Football League. Individually the clubs aren't notable but the parent league does appear to have enough coverage in sources to be. Ritchie333  (talk)  (cont)   12:32, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Even if no club in the league was independently notable, a redirect would still be appropriate. By the way, the notability guideline that Kivo linked to is old and has been superseded by WP:NFOOTY, though that's also the wrong guideline for teams, which is covered under WP:ORG. The league itself has also been up for AfD. Ritchie333  (talk)  (cont)   13:52, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * As far as I'm aware this notability criteria is still in place. WP:NFOOTY and WP:ORG offer no guidance on the subject of football club notability. The league itself has been previously confirmed as notable. Kivo (talk) 14:56, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment - WP:FOOTYN is a mere essay, not actual policy. Furthermore it is not fit for purpose and has not been for a number of years. GiantSnowman 15:05, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * So where are we supposed to go to find football club notability? Kivo (talk) 15:07, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * WP:GNG - same place as everywhere else. The inherent notability guidelines exist because for cases like players in the Premiership, we assume that significant coverage in sources will exist for them, and forcing people to go out and look is kind of pointless. If, hypothetically, a biography of any Sheffield United FC player had zero references aside from one on the club's website confirming his post, no sane person would try and send it to AfD. Ritchie333  (talk)  (cont)   15:12, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Redirect per Ritchie; cannot recall why I created the article 3/4 years ago but I assure you it was for a good reason. FCHD gives a good history of the club, which also confirms they have never played at a high enough level/Cup to be considered notable. GiantSnowman 18:47, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually they have played at a high-enough level - our cut off point is step 6, which they spent two seasons in. Number   5  7  18:42, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * So they have - keep. GiantSnowman 18:50, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Where is a source stating this cut-off point? I've only been able to find this, which states a club must have played in the national cup competition to be notable. Not having a go, would just like to see this 'step 6' criteria for future reference as I may start other articles. Kivo (talk) 19:11, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * See below. Number   5  7  19:16, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. Presumably GS created the article because the club had recently been accepted into the Northern Counties East League First Division, a Level 10 division. Consensus always used to be that clubs having played at Level 10 in the English league system were considered notable. This club not only played at that level, but won that division in 2012. They also had a bit more coverage than the average club at that level when they were not only refused promotion but actually thrown out of the NCEL because their ground failed the grading criteria and the case ended up at arbitration. And because Sean Bean is/was on the board :-) They're supposed to be merging with Parramore F.C. So if this article isn't kept, I'd strongly suggest merge/redirect to Handsworth, South Yorkshire until the club's merger with Parramore goes through, assuming it does, and then the Handsworth F.C. detail can go there. And Handsworth SY would be a sensible permanent home for the content if the Parramore thing doesn't happen, whereas the league they play in at the moment is a purely temporary connection and by next season could be irrelevant. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 20:24, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Club meets the generally agreed criteria of playing at step 6 or above or in FA Cup/Trophy/Vase, as they played in the Northern Counties East League for two seasons. Previous examples of this consensus here, here, here, here. Plenty more if anyone needs. Number   5  7  18:41, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Where is this 'generally agreed criteria' that a club that once played at step 6 is notable? Kivo (talk) 19:05, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * See the four links I provided in my original statement. If you want more, see here, here, here. It isn't a guideline written down anywhere, but a consensus that has evolved through numerous debates, much like English case law. Number   5  7  19:15, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I see, so I could start new articles for existing Sheffield and Hallamshire County Senior Football League clubs that once played in the NCEL? How about the Yorkshire Football League? Would that league be considered step 6 or higher? Kivo (talk) 19:18, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes and yes, although possibly only Division 1 or 2 of the latter. Number   5  7  19:25, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Thanks for the input. I shall be starting a new article on Houghton Main FC, who once won the Yorkshire League. Kivo (talk) 19:27, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.