Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hank Griffin (boxer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Secret account 05:12, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Hank Griffin (boxer)

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Historical but does not meet WP:NBOX. Fought some notable names but WP:NOTINHERITED. Peter Rehse (talk) 16:42, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 16:42, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Weak Delete Neither Boxrec nor CBZ show him ever fighting for a title. Fighting notable fighters does not make automatically make him notable. Papaursa (talk) 19:37, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:24, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:24, 6 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails to meet either WP:NBOX or WP:GNG. Notability is not gained by fighting notable fighters (WP:NOTINHERITED).Mdtemp (talk) 19:33, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep Appears to meet WP:GNG. See  and (note that due to lifetime of boxer Internet records will be harder to find).  Also note that WP:NBOX is not really appropriate for a fighter from this era.  No major sanctioning bodies during his time (NYSAC founded in 1920, NBA founded in 1921) and Ring Magazine not founded until 1922 so criteria 1-3 cannot apply and likewise criteria 4 only applies from 1974 onward.  Therefore I dont think not meeting WP:NBOX carries any weight.RonSigPi (talk) 00:28, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * They still had world champions and he never fought for a title. The sources are mainly fight results, a passing mention, and an announcement of his death.  He doesn't inherit notability from having notable opponents.Mdtemp (talk) 18:31, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * With regard to them having world titles back then, until Joe Gans black men fight for world titles. Gans won it in 1902, well after Griffin's prime so he could never fight for a title since he was black.  And much like other sports, one minority fighting for a title did not open the floodgates.  For example, Jackie Robinson may have played in the majors in 1947, but every team didnt have a minority player until 1959.  Similarly, no way someone like Griffin ever had a chance to fight for a title, so no reason to hold that against him.RonSigPi (talk) 00:45, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
 * There was a Colored Heavyweight championship and he never fought for that either.Mdtemp (talk) 18:11, 28 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 12:44, 14 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep Jack Johnson's (alleged) best fight, not just another opponent. Also (apparently) had the longest reach in his day. Counts for something, I'd say. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:05, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete Doesn't meet WP:GNG. Having a long reach is not a notability criteria. 204.126.132.231 (talk) 16:09, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Update - Found these refs trying to more strongly establish GNG - - A retrospective 20 years after the fight took place.  Seems like lasting coverage to me.   - Three paragraphs dedicated to Griffin written over 100 after the fight took place.   - another fight reference.  We are taking about a fighter that fought over 100 years ago.  I think the ability to find even this many online references for a fighter that died over 100 years ago is very telling and shows GNG.RonSigPi (talk) 00:42, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The problem is that none of these articles are about Griffin. Two are about Jeffries and one about Johnson.  Of course, Griffin is mentioned in articles about people he fought, but I'd like to see an article focusing on him. Papaursa (talk) 21:12, 17 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 17:06, 23 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. Fought to a very high level demonstrated by a win and two draws against Jack Johnson. Coverage is sufficient for basic sourcing. This isn't the sort of boxer we should be excluding from the encyclopedia. --Michig (talk) 08:18, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Notability can't be inherited from those he fought. Also, when they fought Johnson was just starting out, while Griffin was an experienced veteran with close to 30 fights.  There's a reason Johnson won only 4 of his first 11 fights (which is when he lost to Griffin).Mdtemp (talk) 18:11, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Johnson had been fighting for 4 years when Griffin beat him and almost five years by the time of the second drawn fight, which was just 4 months before Johnson beat Frank Childs who was then world colored heavyweight champion, and less than 8 months before Johnson himself won that title, so Johnson was hardly starting out and was in pretty good nick at the time. --Michig (talk) 21:15, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, Johnson's first fight was 3 years (and 3 days) before he fought Griffin (an 11 year pro). It was also Johnson's 10th fight and Griffin's 37th, so there was a clear difference in experience.  However, that doesn't deal with Mdtemp's point--that Griffin is not notable simply because he fought Johnson, regardless of the results--because notability is not inherited from your opponents. Papaursa (talk) 01:27, 30 October 2014 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.