Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Haris Rashid


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Arguments for delete are far stronger than the multiple copied comments from drive-by IPs. Tony Fox (arf!) 19:07, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Haris Rashid

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

The first person to perform single port access surgery in Pakistan. The article has already been deleted here, here and here. Strong on peacock terms but devoid of relevant external links. &mdash; RHaworth 06:34, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Defending the Wiki: In defence of maintaining the page, please note: Anasim (talk) 19:56, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * wiki's of surgeons with similar status exist. Example: Lall_Sawh
 * already deleted pages could not possibly have the same content, except to the extend that they relied on the same news items. Therefore, existing deletes are irrelevant with respect to the content of the current wiki.
 * wiki's of first-timers abound in WP. Just Google "first time in the history of" site:wikipedia.org or similar patterns.
 * This is important information for 180 million Pakistanis.


 * Further more, please note that lack of references can not be an argument for deletion of the wiki. It may be used as an argument for improving the wiki. But existence of wiki is a function of the degree to which wiki's subject matter is encyclopedic in nature, among other criteria. Anasim (talk) 20:25, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I can appreciate User:Anasim's commentary, as well as Dr. Rashid's achievement in the scarless surgery and whatnot, but I still have to go with a Delete on this one. The issue I see is a minor achievement in medicine - no scar for a single point of access (SPA) surgery, and is the first to perform an SPA surgery - scarless or not - in Pakistan.  He is not, however, the first person to perform a SPA surgery.  It's the latter that warrants an article in Wikipedia.  Given this, though, Dr. Rashid should, in my opinion, get a mention in the article about Single port access surgery. -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 20:26, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Note - revised my !vote slightly. -- Dennis The Tiger  (Rawr and stuff) 20:28, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 12:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 12:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. RHaworth, the article is now less strong on peacock terms (though it is still fluffy enough), but it hasn't improved the notability of the subject, whose claim to fame is too tenuous for inclusion here. Drmies (talk) 15:12, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. notable enough for Pakistanis. 110.37.13.61 (talk) 17:17, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. notable enough for Pakistanis. 128.242.109.226 (talk) 18:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Would those two IPs kindly provide the reliable sources necessary to verify those statements? Drmies (talk) 19:25, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The degree of online response from Pakistan in defence of this Wiki may also be considered strong, if not sufficient, evidence for WP:N. Given low literacy, WP not being available in Urdu, power failures, low bandwidth, online participation from Pakistan is likely to reflect a wider point-of-view, compared to online participation from say Britain. Anasim (talk) 20:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, that is the stretchiest argument I have ever seen. Would you propose that AfD become a voting process and that votes from areas to be determined by you count double, even if they are not accompanied by actual arguments? You may state that Pakistan has low literacy, but they have excellent newspapers, I'm sure. Drmies (talk) 20:55, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Not to dwell too much on this issue, but in global contexts, idiosyncrasies of national cohorts are often exploited by statisticians to get more accurate numbers. Anasim (talk) 21:30, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * keep.notable enough for pakistanis. This is a very valuable information and historical event in pakistan references given in the original article are enough to established the fact.These information must include in wikipedia.(ireland)
 * Keep. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of medical professionals listed under "British Medical Doctors" category (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_medical_doctors). If we argues that doing something in Britain does not count for anything unless it is special for the whole world, then I am sure most of these entries will also be marked for deletion
 * Go ahead and propose some of them, and if, like this present article, they suffer from not passing WP:GNG, I'll be glad to vote "delete." However, the presence of even millions of articles on British doctors has no bearing on this article. Drmies (talk) 20:55, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. notable enough for Pakistanis. 115.186.74.219 (talk) 17:43, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. notable enough for Pakistanis. 72.244.49.226 (talk) 17:16, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - To remind people, this is not a vote, this is a consensus. Padding the AFD with the four keep !votes from anon IPs will not establish this. -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 22:30, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * In case following information is useful for the contribs in reaching consensus, especially due to raising of IP address issue, I just resolved the PTR records, and report as follows:
 * 72.244.49.226 - ISP = covad
 * 59.103.208.76 - no PTR resolv; Reg=APNIC
 * 89.204.178.198 - ISP = no PTR resolv; Reg=RIPE (Amsterdam)
 * 128.242.109.226 - ISP = no PTR resolv; Reg=NTT USA
 * 115.186.74.219 - ISP = wordcall.net.pk
 * 110.37.13.61 - ISP = wateen.net Anasim (talk) 00:35, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The thing is this, Anasim, as I am sure you know: the mere echoing of "keep" without providing any kind of argument is not going to convince many administrators. They could be a million different IPs, but if all they say is "keep, notable for Pakistanis"--well, that's just another version of "keep because I like it." Drmies (talk) 02:45, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. There are hundreds of medical professionals listed under "British Medical Doctors" category (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_medical_doctors). If we argues that doing something in Britain does not count for anything unless it is special for the whole world, then I am sure most of these entries will also be marked for deletion — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.244.49.226 (talk) — 72.244.49.226 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Hmmm...sounds familiar...still does not account for Wikipedia guidelines. Drmies (talk) 02:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep.After reading the article and above commentary I am in favor of keeping this article. Objection made is about its fluffiness, peacock term and lack of reference. The author of this article should improve this article by making appropriate edits to rectify the concerns. I do see some references though, including the newspaper articles confirming what is claimed in this article. I also agree this information is valuable especially for a country that is not much advanced in the field of medical; this article would surely give good information and sense of achievement to people of this country. I do see many 'Keeps' without enough reasoning -which is not good- but on the other hand I also see almost equal number of attempts complaining about lots of 'keeps' without reasoning. I see the discussion is going the wrong way, instead of trying to provide reason of keeping or deleting, emphasis is on "sorry your vote didn't count".99.179.20.53 (talk) 10:47, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete "Notable enough for Pakistanis" is ridiculous. enWikipedia covers the world, and at the same standard. We don't insult Pakistanis by accepting a special lower level of notability for the people there. There are undoubtedly many notable Pakistani physicians. For example, the heads of departments at the major medical schools (see Category:Schools of medicine in Pakistan) there are much more likely to be notable than the Assistant Professors, like the subject of this article. The successive Directors of their National Institute of Health, of the Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences,  the Presidents of the Pakistan Medical and Dental Council,  all will probably be notable. We could & should   have dozens of verifiable bio articles of clear notability--those interested in the topic, rather than in PR for the individual, have a wide scope.   And there is no more reason to add him to the article on Single port access surgery than the people who did it first in each separate country in the world.     DGG ( talk ) 02:34, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.