Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Harvey Hilbert


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. WP:HEY Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  15:36, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Harvey Hilbert

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Article seems to make claim based on his religious practice but there is no RS I could ascertain in this article or elsewhere on the subject or at least no RS that talks about him in significance, though I had a hard time figuring out if Yee documentary was RS or not. Most of the sourcing on this page relates back to his service in Vietnam. He does not meet any criteria of WP:NSOLDIER. Further the sources are generally about Hilbert either only in part or are offered as first person retellings and thus is not an independent secondary source. Books are self-published, other articles not enough to satisfy any notability requirement. Sources not present in the page do not seem to bolster claim for notability. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:46, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete - The better RS's used as references only give him passing mention. There's an NPR piece, which gives him direct coverage, but it's an OP/Ed. The article was apparently created by an WP:SPA. Potential WP:AUTOBIO issues. NickCT (talk) 16:10, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep - I believe that the basic story of his being shot in the head, surviving, and going on to become a zen priest is very noteworthy. And while the RS isn't always about that specific story, when taken as a whole they do tell that story.  The Las Cruces Sun News article is completely about him.  While the page concerning him on NPR has the label "Opinion" it doesn't read as an OP/Ed piece - I think the label of "Opinion" is a error.  he PBS series certainly features his story.  The documentaries feature him, or are completely about him.  A lot of the references are about Vietnam but that is because there is just a lot more of that information available.  In this day and age when stolen valor is an issue I wanted to make sure that aspect was well documented.  He is a prominent Zen teacher but that doesn't exactly get a lot of coverage in our media.  I also wanted to say that, yes this is my first article but everyone has to start somewhere.  I am not sure where you all draw the line between new and an WP:SPA. Also, I have no connection with Daiho Harvey Hilbert and it this certainly isn't a WP:AUTOBIO issue.  Like I said this was my first article, if you have any advice on how to bring it more in line with what you would like to see, please let me know. --Uiviu (talk) 20:09, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  GameInfirmary   Talk  16:50, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Buddhism-related deletion discussions.  GameInfirmary   Talk  16:50, 24 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete., posible speedy delete G11, for promotionalism This is effectually an advertisement for his practice and his self-published books. There is no point in trying to rewrite, because there is no oinformation that would establish notability .  DGG ( talk ) 06:10, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete as marginally notable and promotional. The inclusion of all of his honorifics was promotional in itself.  Also, being noteworthy and being notable are not the same.  Robert McClenon (talk) 11:38, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep In response to the criticism I removed anything that I felt could be considered promotional.  Uiviu (talk) 13:25, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep - I have improved upon the article, tightened writing, rearranged sections and paragraphs, removed duplicate info, and added content with reliable sources. The subject was featured in a lengthy piece by NPR's "Morning Edition," while PBS also included him in a documentary series about Vietnam vets. The subject twice spoke as an expert witness before the U.S. Congress. His military awards add to his notability, as well as his published research in studies and co-authoring books. Meets notability guidelines and passes WP:Bio and WP:GNG. -AuthorAuthor (talk) 02:48, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep - I personally feel that the sources that are being cited support what is being said about Harvey Daiho Hilbert, I don't feel in anyway it is advertising or promoting anything more then his life itself. I do find interesting what others are saying, that it is all about him. Well, who else would it be about? Again, this articles is a supportive historical snapshot of Harvey Diaho Hilbert's life ... just like many other articles out there about other folks and their lives. I know Diaho Hilbert and I know about his life and I find no misrepresentation here about that what-so-ever, I feel it is well supported by it's references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zenjukai (talk • contribs) 17:42, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * One last point I still feel that the article - as it currently written - is acceptable and meets the criteria for Notability. I believe that the concerns mentioned by the two other folks that voted to delete have been addressed.  And I think the editing done by AuthorAuthor has tightened up the page.  While I understand that my opinion might not carry the weight of others due to my inexperience, I would think that, by the same token, one would have to weigh AuthorAuthor's opinion heavily given all his work on Wikipeida.  There are three votes to keep and three to delete - with the caveat that the concerns expressed by two of those deletes have been addressed.  I would also note that Harvey Hilbert is mentioned on Wikipedia already in the article Timeline_of_Zen_Buddhism_in_the_United_States - another indication of his notability.  In fact, if you go to Timeline_of_Zen_Buddhism_in_the_United_States you will see that almost everyone but Harvey has a Wikipedia page about them. By my count more than 95% have Wikipedia pages. To me that is a strong argument that he is Notable enough for a page.  Lastly, I would argue that NPR, local newspaper, PBS, Congressional record etc sum to a sufficient number of RS mentions.   Uiviu (talk) 19:58, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Mexico-related deletion discussions. AuthorAuthor (talk) 20:46, 26 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep Bill Smart's opinion.
 * Keep this page Larson97 (talk) 18:37, 31 August 2018 (UTC) moved from talk page


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.