Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hasidic childbirth customs


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Wizardman 17:06, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Hasidic childbirth customs

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Previously WP:PRODded by me, and deprodded at User:IZAK's request that this be brought to AfD for discussion.

This article is problematic on many counts, which is unfortunate, because it is well written and uses apparently reliable sources:
 * Relevance: most of the article has little relevance to Hasidic Jews specifically, but applies to Haredim in general, and often to most Orthodox Jews
 * Accuracy: factual errors abound. Anyone with knowledge on the subject is welcome to check. Select examples:
 * In the Lubavitcher tradition, women attend bridal classes (kallah) to learn the laws of family purity before marriage... Wrongly specific&mdash;this is true of all Haredim and most Orthodox.
 * ...while husbands spend the first 1-2 years of marriage in full-time kollel classes, during which time their wives work to support them. Again wrongly specific&mdash;this is true of all Hasidim and many Haredim.
 * The Gemara describes the settling-down of the divine presence beside a woman in childbirth using the feminine word for this presence, Shechinah, which also has special meaning for Hasidic Jews where it appears in the mystical Zohar of Kabbalah.: lofty nonsense&mdash;according to the Talmud, the shechinah visits every sickbed.
 * When she is feeling strong ... the mother should recite the Birchat HaGomel, a prayer that is said in thanksgiving for deliverance after a serious illness .... This recitation should take place in the presence of a minyan (quorum) of ten men. In the past, some Rebbes have ruled that it violates a woman's modesty to recite the HaGomel in front of men, and the husband has done the recitation on her behalf, in the synagogue.: Unheard of in most (if not all) Hasidic sects.
 * I can give many other examples if asked. I am not acquainted with the sources cited, except Finkelstein & Finkelstein; I assume that they are either unreliable, or that the author of the article, unacquainted with the Hasidic community, seriously misunderstood them. I thus invoke TNT
 * Notability of the subject: "Hasidic customs" are no doubt notable; so are Jewish childbirth customs. The intersection of the two is not.
 * COI: I suspect that the sole creator of this article's content (User:Plithgow) had a promotional motive in writing it; search "Hasidic childbirth customs" + Lithgow. הסרפד  (call me Hasirpad) 02:37, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions.  הסרפד  (call me Hasirpad) 02:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:N and per nom. I am also familiar with the subject and see many generalizations and over-specifications that apply to all Haredim, not just Hasidim. The article is also much too broad, including subjects others than childbirth (e.g. social structure, community solidarity, health and illness), and reads like a personal essay. Yoninah (talk) 10:17, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.