Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hayley Angel Holt


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. This is a borderline case and may be better off being redirected to her band article; this, of course, is not an issue for AFD. Black Kite (talk) 09:55, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Hayley Angel Holt

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There are no reliable sources to show that Holt meets the general notability guideline or the notability guideline for actors. Pseudonymous Rex (talk) 03:51, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions.  Gong   show  15:30, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  Gong   show  15:30, 13 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Theopolisme ( talk )  04:40, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,   A rbitrarily 0    ( talk ) 19:26, 28 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:GNG, Improving it seems a better choice. - →Davey 2010→  →Talk to me!→  00:07, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete per my reply to User:Pseudonymous Rex. (Not much about her & doesn't seem to pass GNG IMO.)


 * →Davey 2010→ →Talk to me!→  14:50, 1 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep: She doesn't have enough of a career to achieve notability through WP:CREATIVE, true, but being in a band that scored a single charting on the UK charts is enough (barely) to qualify under WP:BAND.   Ravenswing   06:18, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello. Thank you both for joining the discussion.
 * I haven't seen the coverage needed to pass GNG. I see what seems to be an interview that requires a subscription to view, but most of what's out there is user-generated. If you see more, better sources, could you share them? Thank you.
 * I agree that the group, Frank (band), meets the BAND guideline, but I don't think that she personally does. Per WP:BAND point 6, if she had been in two independently notable ensembles, then she'd surely pass. As it is, maybe the page should redirect to the band's article.
 * — Pseudonymous Rex (talk) 04:56, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * - I've found this & this but that's pretty much it ...Apart from what you/I linked there's nothing.... →Davey 2010→  →Talk to me!→  14:50, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I just want to interject here that WP:BAND isn't applicable to this person, as she can't inherit notability from a band per WP:NOTINHERITED and the caveat at the end of WP:BAND: "Note that members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability for activity independent of the band, such as solo releases." --Batard0 (talk) 17:07, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Again, Hayley is Hayley Angel Holt since November 2012. Previously Hayley Angel Wardle.

Search google for these names now and tell me she is not an established actress. It's almost laughable if this is down to Wikipedia "rules", to say that she MAY only qualify as a musician due to the band 'Totally Frank' when this was actually derived from the Channel 4 TV series which Hayley was the lead in and that ran for 2 seasons with 12 episodes each... Hayley has acted with Tom Hardy (in The Take) and Faye Dunaway (in Flick)... and she doesn't qualify to be on this website? Please, let's save any further embarrassment.

Please find the links below as references including the Sky website.

The Take http://sky1.sky.com/the-take-hot-cast-pics/29

Totally Frank http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/totally-frank/cast/472309 http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/813625

Flick http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0482147/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flick_(film)

Departure Lounge http://one4review.co.uk/2008/08/departure-lounge-by-dougal-irvine/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhycoco (talk • contribs) 19:58, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

source around Sky TV Series with Tom Hardy http://warnersisterstv.com/drama/the-take/ which is available to view on Sky website now... British Film Institute mentions primary sourced information http://explore.bfi.org.uk/4ce2bd6b92c1d. The Evening Standard (Londons largest newspaper) ran an article regarding Hayley including an interview. http://www.questia.com/library/1P2-2652120/watch-out-for-hayley-angel-wardle#articleDetails. I've found on an old Channel4 broadcasting channel website about Totally Frank http://web.archive.org/web/20070525123408/http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/T/totally_frank/the_cast_2.html. A review from Jack Smith (Whats On Stage) referring to Hayley Angel Wardle in Departure Lounge. Another source: http://www.broadwaybaby.com/listing.php?id=1456. Also mention here and photo of subject in blue dress: http://www.todomusicales.com/content/content_english/2136/luke-kempner-and-niamh-perry-in-love-with-musical-theatre/ "'Totally Frank' actresses (from left to right) Helena Dowling, Bryony Afferson, Lauren Blake and Hayley Wardle pose in the press room at the T4 Poll Winners' Party 2005 With Smash Hits at Wembley Arena Pavilion on November 20, 2005 in London, England." - http://www.wireimage.co.uk/celebrity-pictures/Totally-Frank-actresses-Helena-Dowling-Bryony-Afferson-Lauren-Blake/56245335?cc=GBR&language=en-GB Subject at film premieres: http://www.spokeo.com/Hayley+Angel+Wardle+1/Aug+08+2006+London+Gb#17324151:31985121 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhycoco (talk • contribs) 22:53, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep I've done a bit of work tidying up the article. It seems to me that there is enough here to constitute notability, particularly her lead role in Totally Frank (ran for 2 seasons on major UK broadcaster) and in terms of the associated band Frank (UK top 40 single). She doesn't quite meet WP:NACTOR or WP:MUSIC, but close on both seems enough together and all those TV appearances she did in 2006 promoting Frank, I feel, count towards WP:GNG criteria. (And she's Jah Wobble's daughter! OK, OK, I know notability is not inherited...) Bondegezou (talk) 12:12, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for cleaning up the article a bit. I very respectfully disagree about meeting GNG, though. The reliable sources say only that she played such-and-such role in such-and-such production. If she met GNG, there would be more significant, detailed coverage. In the absence of such coverage, I don't think she meets GNG. — Pseudonymous Rex (talk) 03:06, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Reply My point there was that appearing on Richard & Judy and T4 etc. constitutes examples of GNG because those are significant media sources, albeit ones not archived on the Web. Bondegezou (talk) 09:18, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * If the subject in question does not constitute being an actress, would all Wikipedia pages that mention the subject then also be incorrect? (eg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flick_(film)) Please also explain why the subject was on Wikipedia to begin with and for a number of years had no issues, only until her surname changed recently this is now being raised for deletion.

Sugarhouse http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/662698/Sugarhouse/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.165.213.236 (talk) 14:45, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. I don't think we're meeting the WP:GNG or any more specific criteria, including WP:NACTOR, WP:MUSIC or WP:BAND. A search under both of her names reveals only trivial coverage, passing mentions and listings in credits: nothing, in other words, that a reasonable person could call significant coverage independent of the subject in reliable sources. Here's a review of the sources and arguments that have been presented so far as establishing notability:
 * http://sky1.sky.com/the-take-hot-cast-pics/29 is a picture of Holt with no commentary. This can't constitute significant coverage.
 * http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/totally-frank/cast/472309 is a TV Guide cast listing with no individual coverage of the actors.
 * http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/813625 is another listing in a film database.
 * http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0482147/ is an IMDB listing with no significant coverage of the actress.
 * http://one4review.co.uk/2008/08/departure-lounge-by-dougal-irvine/ is a short review that only parenthetically mentions the actress as part of a listing of cast members.
 * http://warnersisterstv.com/drama/the-take/ is a brief mention in credits.
 * http://explore.bfi.org.uk/4ce2bd6b92c1d is another database listing of credits.
 * http://www.questia.com/library/1P2-2652120/watch-out-for-hayley-angel-wardle#articleDetails is about as close as we're getting to significant coverage, but it's a short interview with her answers to a series of stock questions. I don't think in itself it's sufficient to establish notability under the WP:GNG. As an interview, it's primary material and thus not independent of the subject; the parts that aren't primary are brief.
 * http://web.archive.org/web/20070525123408/http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/T/totally_frank/the_cast_2.html is a brief cast listing on the website of the TV show's broadcaster. It's not independent of the subject.
 * http://www.broadwaybaby.com/listing.php?id=1456 doesn't mention the subject.
 * http://www.todomusicales.com/content/content_english/2136/luke-kempner-and-niamh-perry-in-love-with-musical-theatre/ only mention of the subject is in a picture caption in a story about someone else.
 * http://www.wireimage.co.uk/celebrity-pictures/Totally-Frank-actresses-Helena-Dowling-Bryony-Afferson-Lauren-Blake/56245335?cc=GBR&language=en-GB doesn't load, but appears to also be an appearance in a photo.
 * http://www.spokeo.com/Hayley+Angel+Wardle+1/Aug+08+2006+London+Gb#17324151:31985121 are red-carpet photos of the subject.

I think it'd be hard to reach a reasonable conclusion that this coverage meets the WP:GNG. A contention has been raised above that the fact that a band she was in is notable may make her notable. WP:BAND and other guidelines specifically preclude this. I haven't been able to find evidence of significant coverage; unless new evidence appears that such coverage may exist, I think deletion is the correct decision under the guidelines. --Batard0 (talk) 17:34, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.