Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hazel Erby


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There appears to be consensus, with the additional sources located (both in obituaries and prior), that the notability test for county councillor has been met Nosebagbear (talk) 11:38, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Hazel Erby

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Biography of a county councillor, not properly sourced as passing WP:NPOL #2. As always, county council is not a level of office that confers an automatic inclusion freebie in Wikipedia -- the notability test for county councillors hinges not on verifying that they existed, but on showing substantial media coverage about their work to establish the significance of it: specific things they accomplished in the role, specific effects they had on the development of the county, specific impacts they had on wider political affairs beyond their county, or other stuff which establishes a reason to regard them as significantly more notable than most other county councillors. But two of the four footnotes here are primary sources that are not support for notability at all (her "staff" bio on the council's own self-published website and her obituary on the website of the funeral home) -- the other two footnotes are from real media but both exist solely in the context of her death, and even one of those is just a "here are her funeral details, the end" blurb rather than substantive coverage of her work in politics. And while the longer piece about her death contains enough useful information to be a start toward an article that would pass WP:NPOL, it isn't enough coverage to be a finish all by itself if it's the only notability-assisting source in the article. Nothing here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt her from having to have a lot more substance and a lot more referencing than this. Bearcat (talk) 13:47, 28 March 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 19:51, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Bearcat (talk) 13:47, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Missouri-related deletion discussions. Bearcat (talk) 13:47, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete members of county councils are not default notable and our sourcing is not enough to show notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:10, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep I was able to find lots about her on Google News, I added some in. Here's more if anyone wants to do the work that should happen instead of a deletion: https://news.stlpublicradio.org/tags/hazel-erby CT55555 (talk) 16:13, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:19, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to St. Louis County Council. Not independently notable per WP:NPOL at this time. KidAd  •  SPEAK  21:28, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Modussiccandi (talk) 10:52, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak keep Redirect won't work because the St. Louis County Council does not mention her, so it probably reflects a later date. Also, that article itself is sourced only to primary sources: two pages of the council web site. Because multiple sources from the same publication count as one, the STL public radio sources are only one source. The StL Business Journal is another. The Funeral home notice is not an independent source (probably written by a relative), and the STL Today is a brief notice of the funeral. Lamona (talk) 22:11, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep She is described as one of the "Matriarchs Of Black Politics In St. Louis" in significant, in-depth coverage by St. Louis Public Radio in 2021, which is currently not clear in the article but could be expanded based on this source. A separate bylined obituary by St. Louis Public Radio, titled Hazel Erby, A Towering Figure In St. Louis County Politics, Dies At 75 is significant and in-depth coverage that could help expand the article (e.g. the article states, "Perhaps Erby’s defining moment as a public figure came in 2014, right after a Ferguson police officer shot and killed Michael Brown."). Another bylined obituary, titled Trailblazing St. Louis County Councilwoman Hazel Erby dies at 75 by a local FOX station notes "Erby was elected to represent the first district as the first African American woman on the council in 2004", which could also be added to the article. These are only the first few hits in my online search, but it appears that she has WP:GNG notability well-covered and additional research can reasonably be expected to find further support. Beccaynr (talk) 19:34, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There is also another bylined obit: Former Councilwoman Hazel Erby leaves behind powerhouse legacy (St. Louis American), describing her as "a champion for racial equity on the St. Louis County Council", a bylined obit for a local NBC station: 'A gentle front-line soldier' | Friends remember former St. Louis County Council member Hazel Erby that includes discussion of her "lawsuit against St. Louis County accusing County Executive Sam Page and others of racial discrimination", which was also covered by the Associated Press in 2020. Her work as the leader of the Fannie Lou Hamer Coalition also received national coverage from NBC in 2014. She also received coverage in the Guardian in 2014 as a "member of the St Louis county council whose ward includes Ferguson", and in the New York Review in 2015 as a county council member, mother, and "North County resident of middle-class University City for almost fifty years". Beccaynr (talk) 19:59, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * She also has a brief profile that generally references "numerous awards for her work in the community" in African American St. Louis (2016, p. 65), more than a passing mention in Public Disorder and Globalization (2016, p. 38), and several pages related to her and her work in context in Busted in New York and Other Essays (2019, beginning at p. 127). Beccaynr (talk) 20:20, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Discrimination-related deletion discussions. Beccaynr (talk) 20:31, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment Also, per WP:NRV, No subject is automatically or inherently notable merely because it exists: the evidence must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition [...] Sources of evidence include recognized peer-reviewed publications, credible and authoritative books, reputable media sources, and other reliable sources generally. In addition, per WP:NEXIST, The absence of sources or citations in an article (as distinct from the non-existence of sources) does not indicate that a subject is not notable. Notability requires only the of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate presence or citation in an article. Editors evaluating notability should consider not only any sources currently named in an article, but also the possibility or existence of notability-indicating sources that are not currently named in the article. Thus, before proposing or nominating an article for deletion, or offering an opinion based on notability in a deletion discussion, editors are strongly encouraged to attempt to find sources for the subject in question and consider the possibility of existent sources if none can be found by a search. Wikipedia articles are not a final draft, and an article's subject can be notable if such sources exist, even if they have not been named yet. If it is likely that significant coverage in independent sources can be found for a topic, deletion due to lack of notability is inappropriate. (emphasis added due to the !votes and nomination that appear to only discuss sources in the article). Beccaynr (talk) 20:51, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Sufficient sources to demonstrate notability. She played a key role in city politics in St. Louis not to mention the length of her service and the fact that she is a Black woman. Patapsco913 (talk) 02:12, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep As a civil rights pioneer, she is included in several books, including Public Disorder and Globalization - Page 38, Civil Rights in St. Louis - Page 122, Busted in New York and Other Essays. She was the first Black woman to be elected to the county council in St Louis. Found a ridiculous number of significant stories on newspapers.com. She easily meets the general notability guideline Jacona (talk) 11:05, 17 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.