Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heath Totten


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) Logan Talk Contributions 00:29, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Heath Totten

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Non-notable, 32-year old, free agent, minor league baseball pitcher who hasn't played since 2008. His 66-73 record is far from stellar and, in my opinion, does not merit an article. Alex (talk) 22:13, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep "hasn't played since 2008" His page at the official Minor League Baseball website states that his status is "Active". It also states that he has pitched as recently as December 29, 2010. He is playing for Bravos de Margarita in the Venezuelan League - the highest professional league in the country of Venezuela. Some of his teammates this past year are major league players. The second guideline of the baseball notability guidelines: "Have appeared in at least one game in ... any other top-level national league." Having played in the top professional league of Venezuela, I feel he qualifies. Kinston eagle (talk) 22:38, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I would also note that he participated in the 2010 Caribbean Series. Notability (sports) states that "Sports figures are presumed notable (except as noted within a specific section) if they: 1. have participated in a major international ... professional competition at the highest level" Kinston eagle (talk) 22:49, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The Olympics are "major." The Caribbean Series is not. Alex (talk) 18:38, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The Olympics are a major amateur competition. The Caribbean Series is professionals only. Regardless, there were no Summer Olympics in 2010, so one could argue that this was the most important international baseball tournament of that year - professional or amateur. Kinston eagle (talk) 19:31, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep per Kinston. Spanneraol (talk) 23:07, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:03, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment That rule really needs tweaking then. There is no way a person who plays in a relatively unknown (and meaningless) "top-tier level" league in a country like Venezuela is as notable and noteworthy as someone who plays in the major leagues. I hate to go all WP:WAX-y on us, but that opens up the door to a lot of REALLY obscure people that are really not deserving of an article. For example, there are "top level" leagues in countries like Colombia that don't even have websites, and are akin to sandlot or at best independent or A-ball quality in the United States. However, as the rules are written, they are just as deserving of an article as Babe Ruth. That seems a bit wrong. If Player X plays in Venezuela, he is article worthy, even though the competition is not much better than the United States' minor leagues. However, if Player Y plays in the U.S. minors and does just as well as Player X, he doesn't get an article because he didn't play in a de facto "top league." That is off. Players like this maybe deserve articles on the Baseball Reference Bullpen, not Wikipedia. Alex (talk) 05:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, if someone plays for some obscure team in a country that has no websites then it would be very difficult to acquire sourcing about them.. In Totten's place, his appearance in the Caribbean series carries more weight with me than his playing in the Venezuelan league. Spanneraol (talk) 16:07, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The guideline was written that way for a reason. Within the context of Venezuelan athletics, Venezuelan professional baseball is notable, as are the participants at the top level of that sport. If we're going to have articles on Venezuela at all, then we need to cover Venezuela regardless of whether or not Venezuelan things would be notable outside the particular context of that country. As to B-R bullpen, why should we care what they do or don't cover? They're a separate organization operated by a separate set of people. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 17:06, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Which entirely sets aside, of course, the matter of Totten being notable purely for his minor league accomplishments. He was a two-time minor league all-star who set a record in the Southern League. That's a pretty good case in and of itself. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 17:11, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * You are insinuating then that being a minor league All-Star is inherently notable, which it too is not. Is every Purple Heart winner deserving of an article? Is every member of a rotary club Hall of Fame worthy of an article? The notability of those accomplishments are akin to the notability of being a minor league All-Star. His record is nothing more than a random, unsourced tidbit, meaningless trivia. Most innings pitched without a walk is hardly anything that would merit an article, especially from a minor league. Alex (talk) 18:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * There are a hell of a lot more Rotarians and Purple Heart winners than there are minor league All-Stars, and in my experience a player generally is the subject of enough profiles and interviews to meet GNG once he wins a spot on a minor league all-star team at A+ or above. Whether or not people at AFD feel like actually looking for those sources is another matter, of course. As for the record, you'd do well to keep in mind that others may disagree with your interpretation of its prestige. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 22:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep per Kinston eagle. Rlendog (talk) 21:43, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.