Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heebthong Krissada


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. If there is unsourced content in the article, we remove it, not delete a perfectly notable article. / ƒETCH COMMS  /  01:01, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Heebthong Krissada

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Unref'd BLP; looked around for sources and I can't find any, questionable notability even if I could have. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 15:51, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions.  — Wizardman  Operation Big Bear 15:51, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment According to this he is a professional baseball player in Japan. However, it does not state at which level. --Brian Halvorsen (talk) 17:43, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep and improve. Meets WP:ATHLETE, in that he participated in "a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level such as the Olympics". Specifically, the 2007 Baseball World Cup, as a member of the Thai national team (see here or here, for example). I find the nominator's claim to have done a thorough search for sources unpersuasive - did he also check Thai-language sources, or ask members of WikiProject Thailand to do so? -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 18:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The first paragraph of WP:ATHLETE makes it clear that an article on an athlete must also meet the general notability guideline and that "the article must provide reliable sources showing that the subject meets the criteria." That requires actual sources, not the hope that hypothetical sources might exist in another language. Consequently, I would argue that the article, which doesn't cite reliable sources, doesn't satisfy WP:ATHLETE. BRMo (talk) 20:33, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's rather more than just a "hope" that Thai-language sources exist. Heebthong Krissada is one of the three or four most famous baseball players in his entire country, and baseball IS covered by the Thai media (see this article from an English-language Thai paper, for example, which includes a discussion of his performance in the Asian Games and a quote from him about the team's chances). To blithely assume that no articles about a foreign person exist without even checking that foreign person's native press is systemic bias, plain and simple. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 19:51, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I never assumed that no articles exist on the subject. Rather, I claim that an article that doesn't cite its sources doesn't satisfy Wikipedia's policy for biographies of living persons, which requires that we "be very firm about the use of high quality sources." Assumptions about sources that may or may not exist aren't sufficient to meet that standard. BRMo (talk) 05:19, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:16, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per bull. Subject clearly meets WP:ATHLETE. Vodello (talk) 22:36, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. The article, as currently written, cites no sources and thus violates WP:BLP, which requires that "material about living persons must be written with the greatest care and attention to verifiability, neutrality, and avoiding original research." BLP and WP:N have to take precedence over WP:ATHLETE, and Hit bull, win steak's links notwithstanding, I don't see much hope for improving this article to meet even the most minimal standards of verifiability. BRMo (talk) 13:42, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Phil Bridger found four sources below. BLP rationale is no longer valid and I strongly disagree with it failing WP:N. Vodello (talk) 04:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * BLP is still a concern because the article still contains no sources, and the sources that Phil Bridger has identified are unable to verify most of the information contained in the article. BRMo (talk) 05:09, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep. The sources presented by Hit bull, win steak verify that this is a player for his national team. The article seems to have the wrong name order, so should be moved to Krissada Heebthong. More such verification can be found here, here, here and here, so there's clearly no problem with verifiability. The fact North American baseball doesn't recognise that the world extends beyond that continent doesn't mean that Wikipedia has to be so insular. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:08, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for finding some sources. Nevertheless, there still is a problem with verifiability, because even with the sources that you and Hit bull, win steak have identified, most of the information contained in the short (two paragraph) article can't be verified. Indeed, one of your sources contradicts the article (the Wikipedia article says his father is Japanese whereas the linked mb.com.ph article indicates that it's a step-father). That's a problem for an article that's supposed to satisfy WP:BLP. Furthermore, none of the sources that you and HBWS have located provide the kind of "significant coverage" of the subject that's required by WP:GNG (and also by the first paragraph of WP:ATH). I'd suggest that taking all of your sources together, it would be difficult to write more than about a three-sentence fully verified article about the subject. If this article is kept, given the paucity of information about the subject I think it would be better to merge and redirect it to Thailand national baseball team, which is also desperately in need of expansion. (BTW, if your snarky comment about the insularity of North American baseball was directed at me, it was misdirected. I've spent many hours editing and improving Wikipedia articles on baseball played outside of the United States.) BRMo (talk) 05:06, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.