Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heiho Niten Ichi Ryu Memorial


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  09:57, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Heiho Niten Ichi Ryu Memorial

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I've declined a speedy deletion request on this, as it clearly doesn't meet the intentionally strict criterion ("the deception is so obvious as to constitute pure vandalism"). I don't have either the French or the Japanese language skills to determine whether this is genuinely a hoax. A brief WP:BEFORE skim on Google shows numerous mentions, which could potentially be Wikipedia mirrors and citogenesis but will take quite a bit of effort to unravel. If this a hoax, then it's a serious piece of cross-wiki abuse over a period of years, taking in multiple languages as well as a number of Commons photographs, and needs to be investigated well above my pay grade. Procedural AfD nomination so I abstain. &#8209; Iridescent 12:45, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions.  &#8209; Iridescent 12:45, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions.  &#8209; Iridescent 12:45, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Further to the above, while I continue not to have an opinion on whether this is a hoax or not, there is definitely something matching the description in the article visible at the claimed location on Google Street View (zoom in near the base of the taller flagpole and you can see the Japanese-inscribed stelae). This isn't proof that this article is genuine—it may totally misrepresent what this artefact is and it could just be the home of someone who really likes flagpoles and Japanese inscriptions—but there's unquestionably a Japanese monument of some sort in Gleizé. &#8209; Iridescent 14:20, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, there is something. There are flags ; there is a "stelae". But this is not enough to make a Wikipedia article. There is no independent source about this place. Padex (talk) 14:54, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, there is something. There are flags ; there is a "stelae". But this is not enough to make a Wikipedia article. There is no independent source about this place. Padex (talk) 14:54, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete. I volunteer for helping understanding French. This is a serious case of source hijacking. French edition administrators banned multiple accounts, all related (sockpuppetry). It does need a lot of investigation, as well as banning and content blacklisting. Padex (talk) 13:08, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I strongly recommend reading the talk page. Padex (talk) 14:01, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment If a hoax, it is pretty elaborate. The Japanese is real, and usually (J) hoaxes are extremely easy to spot. Even the "heiho/hyoho" alternation is genuine; 兵法 has readings heihō and hyōhō, and means "military skill/training" or somesuch (this is wildly outside my area of knowledge or interest). But much of the article text is fairly obviously inchoate rambling. Possibly it could be reduced to a stub, if it is possible to find actual evidence of the site. Imaginatorium (talk) 13:52, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment : (please excuse me for my broken english) Yes, it's a pretty elaborate long term abuse. This article is about something that exists, but the main part is a hoax, that is built from what's we call a "diversion of sources". The first time I realized the problems on french page, I did exactly what you suggest : reduce it to a stub. However, the "inchoate rambling" came back again and again, untill I discovered it has been subject to deletion, and recreated without agreement. We blocked 8 socketpuppers and ban the author this morning on french Wikipedia for sockpupettry and cross-wiki vandalism. (see ANI and ban decision). You will find there on global contribs which pages on en-WP are potentially affected. To give 2 exemples, consider the sentence : " This budokan in its outer form represents a samurai helmet, specifically the symbol of the prefecture of Okayama ". On the french version, it was supposed to be Napoleon's tricorne. On japanese Wikipédia, it is, according to the sources, a stylized sea cucumber shape, that was used for the tsuba of a sword. About the Miyamoto Musashi Budokan, it is stated that " On March 4, 1999, the village of Ōhara was twinned with Gleizé in the presence of Sensei Tadashi Chihara guarantor and tenth of the line of Miyamoto Musashi who notably carried the mandate of the mayor of Ōhara at the time Yuki Hiroshi, and in the presence of the mayor by Gleizé " but the Gleizé official website juste said that they are unformal friendly relationships beetween the both schools. And so on. The point with this contributor is that he spammed a lot of articles with the 3 url of his site, (that exists) and some fringe theories, such the Drapeau Reiwa (A japanese flag with Fleur-de-lis and Sacred Heart). That's the reason why one's can find on this page a picture of "the memorial" - that is, the aligment of flags in front of the municipal hall that housed the french school of Aikido. --Pa2chant.bis (talk) 18:33, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * OK, I see that there is a problem. But a first step is to agree that this is not a "hoax", that simply is not the appropriate term. It's some kind of soap-box, spamming effort (with quite a bit of international cooperation - the flag is in de:Platonischer Körper for example. Then it is simply a question of deciding whether there is anything notable or not. Imaginatorium (talk) 19:40, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * As for me, I don't mind the technical term, « hoax » or not « hoax ». I am not familiar with wikipedia problems classification. Padex (talk) 20:34, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The template says "The truthfulness of this article has been questioned. It is believed that some or all of its content may constitute a hoax.". I am not interested in climbing steps, my aim was just to help and explain that a great part of page is a fake, such as the importance of the international relationships, the historical riginators", the kind of "memorial" it is (just two stones outside the building, not the building itself). There are quite no reliable sources about the memorial, the local sources are hijacked and the reliable sources of the article just do not say anything about the "Memorial". Outside Wikipedia, the notability of this "Memorial" is about zero, but I can understand you prefer to keep it. What you call "international cooperation" is what we call in France "transwiki abuse" - it's one of the sockpuppetts who inserted it . I guess you have now all the tools needed to decide what to do. Cheers. --Pa2chant.bis (talk) 21:40, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom & les francais. When all the fakery is stripped away, it's very doubtful that anything notable is left. Johnbod (talk) 16:14, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment a very bizarre article, can't find anything that suggests notability or that it's bona fide. Is there a French wikipage? -- Devoke water  12:37, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * No, as explained they killed it & blocked a load of sockpuppets over it. Johnbod (talk) 16:09, 21 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete can't find anything that suggests notability Devoke  water  10:43, 22 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.