Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heinen's


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

By consensus at DRV, this result is now a No Consensus/default keep. Xoloz 16:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

The result of the debate was delete. --Ezeu 01:55, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Heinen's
A non-notable supermarket. Fails WP:CORP. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;   &spades;  04:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The Heinen's stub is not intended to advertise the store whatsoever. It is merely providing information on a local community-based grocery store. Perhaps it could be placed within a larger group of articles that discusses community-based grocery stores and their importance in modern suburban areas. Notability need not be a concept of national concern. Grocery stores small and large contribute to the growth of cities alike. They equally bring about the ideas of economy, consumerism, and small business.

Heinen's is comparable to many other grocery stores such as Giant Eagle, and it can furthermore be identified as a competing force against these stores. It should not be considered non-notable simply because it is a local chain in its infancy.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heinen%27s"

I plan on and intend to add additional information that will help make the subject matter more applicable and more notable to the general public. Bluebul1989 04:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989
 * Comment Please review the criteria at WP:CORP. Can you offer substantiation of notability under those guidelines? Fan1967 05:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete an unremarkable neighborhood grocery store clearly fails WP:CORP -Drdisque 06:24, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete, non-notable supermarket, article reads like advertising. J I P  | Talk 09:10, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. Sorry, WP:CORP is a harsh mistress. --UsaSatsui 11:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. Amalas   =^_^=  20:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete unverified, probably unverifiable, non-notable, fails WP:CORP, and in addition, note this edit added by an anon. minutes after creation . Mak (talk)  20:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep - is this really any less notable than many of the links on Supermarkets in the United_States? --Rehcsif 21:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep This article clearly passes WP:CORP in that it is ranked in the top 100 Ohio private buisnesses. Also, as previously noted, this page is more supstantial than some of the others on Supermarkets in the United_States. Thus, there is no reason for this article to be deleted. --Laximus

I don't understand why WP:CORP must be the basis for acceptance. Small and growing businesses have little or no chance against it and should be judged using other criteria. Heinen's is a well-known grocery competitor in Ohio and the greater Cleveland area. For information about Heinen's, view. Additionally, Heinen's is a grocer partner of Continental Airlines. . Bluebul1989 01:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989

Here is a site listing financial information and rankings of top Ohio businesses between 2003 and 2004. Heinen's is ranked within the top 100 on this list. Its sales volume was calculated to be between 100 and 499 million dollars. Heinen's had 2,200 employees at this time and its ranking had increased 42.7% in a one year period. . Bluebul1989 02:20, 31 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989
 * Comment Companies like this are precisely why WP:CORP is in place. Wikipedia is not the Yellow Pages. The intent is to only document companies that are newsworthy and notable. A small local grocery chain with 2,200 employees is neither. Fan1967 03:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Though the chain is small, upon further research I have discovered that it passes 2 out of 3 of the criteria required to be considered notable listed in WP:CORP. A company known as Wyse Advertising has decided to work for Heinen's and to conduct research for the business. Wyse Advertising. Moreover, as I stated before, Heinen's is listed as a top 100 private Ohio business (it was ranked 51 in 2004) and continues to grow in size and volume. Please consider that Heinen's, although not newsworthy, is indeed notable and competes with many large businesses within its operating area, including Giant Eagle and Tops to name a few. Bluebul1989 03:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989
 * You know, I think the standards laid out in WP:CORP are too high (that doesn't change my vote), but I'm wondering something. Why, exactly, are you so intent upon getting this store an article?  Do you work for them?   Are you an owner?  Friends of yours?  If you really think that people are interested in learning about this small chain because it's interesting or notable, then fine, but it doesn't seem to me you're very objective here (WP:VAIN).  I'm sure it plays a huge role in your local community, much like any grocery store does.  I'll bet it's a wonderful store, and may very well be notable someday.  Right now, though, it simply doesn't meet the standards for an article.  --UsaSatsui 07:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Or does s/he work for Wyse Advertising? Wouldn't be the first time a PR firm tried to use WP to show a quick hit accomplishment to the client. Fan1967 14:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No need to assume bad faith... ---J.S (t|c) 22:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

"An article should not be dismissed as "vanity" simply because the subject is not famous. There is currently no consensus about what degree of recognition is required to justify a unique article being created in Wikipedia... Lack of fame is not the same as vanity." (WP:VAIN) Bluebul1989 20:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989

As I said before, I am not trying to advertise the store. Yes, I am from Ohio and I in fact live near a Heinen's. Yet I have no bias towards Heinen's and consider it as one of many grocery stores in the Ohio region (these other businesses being recognized in Wikipedia). I feel the chain is an important and influential business in Ohio, and should additionally be recognized as a business competitor. I do not work for Wyse Advertising as I am a 16-year-old junior in highschool. Please consider everything that I have discussed in my posts above. If you still do not believe that Heinen's should be submitted as an entry in Wikipedia, at the very least perhaps it could be grouped with other small, less nationally known businesses (or regional businesses), in a "small and notable businesses" article. This would give an opportunity to many smaller businesses that are important but are left in the dust only because they are not nationally recognized. It would also expand Wikipedia without giving too much attention to each individual business. I know that Wikipedia is not the Yellow Pages and I agree that not any ordinary or local business deserves a place in an enyclopedia. My only intent is to enter Heinen's as a rather notable and competitive supermarket chain in Ohio, and to eventually bring light to other small and growing businesses in the United States that deserve to be known and recognized as important parts of the economy. -Author of Heinen's Article Bluebul1989 20:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989
 * Keep - I think if a business has 2200 employees and is a chain it should be kept. I Think the idea behind WP:CORP is to keep the random hot-dog stands off of WP... not the company who owns 400. Seems to pass WP:CORP in any case. No need to automatically assume bad faith... this is the author of the article.  I'd fight for an article I created just as much. ---J.S (t|c) 22:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not the author, par-say... just saying the author would fight for his creation, right? ---J.S (t|c) 22:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

IMPORTANT Heinen's is located on the Supermarkets in the United States page under the "Smaller Chains" section. It was already on this page before I even created the Heinen's article, signifying that the creator intended to eventually link this to a Wikipedia article specifically about Heinen's. Having a spot on this page, it is obviously a notable small business, and the Heinen's stub should therefore be permitted. View the page here:. I would also like to note the permittance of other smaller, regional chains in this section that are comparable to Heinen's. Many of these chains are as small as Heinen's.  Here are some examples: Woodman's Food Market, Westborn Market, Ukrop's Super Market. There are many chains that are smaller and have a lower sales volume than Heinen's that are located on the Supermarkets in the United States page and that have been granted Wikipedia pages. I find it absolutely ridiculous that there is an obvious inconsistency and discrepancy in Wikipedia policy and ruling that I got trapped in the middle of. My article was not judged in the same manner that these other articles were and was immediately proposed for deletion without any consideration. The fact that I had to fight so hard to support something that should not have been debated in the first place is even more upsetting. I urge that this issue be settled immediately and that all "smaller chains" located in the Supermarkets in the United States article be granted a Wikipedia page, as they are certainly important grocery chains. I hope that all future additions of smaller, notable businesses are overlooked with a fairness and consistency that is expected from Wikipedia. A business does not have to be a large, nationally recognized chain, to be considered notable. -Author of Heinen's stub Bluebul1989 03:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)bluebul1989


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.