Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heinrich Marx


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Views are split between keep and merge, so a second AfD is not recommended, but rather (if any further discussion is desired) a merger discussion on the article talk page.  Sandstein  17:59, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Heinrich Marx

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The article fails WP:GNG. Sources show he is not notable himself, but only known because of his relationship with Marx. Content should be trimmed and Merged into Karl Marx  // Timothy ::  talk  03:52, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Philosophy-related deletion discussions.   // Timothy ::  talk  03:52, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions.   // Timothy ::  talk  03:52, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Merge to article on Karl Marx.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:44, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge. While acknowledging that searching is difficult, given that the results are swamped by material about his son, I'm not seeing coverage outside the context of "he was the father of The Marx". Vanamonde (Talk) 18:03, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: I have a few books on Marx and did a Kindle search and couldn't find anything in the books or bibliography entries that established independent notability.  // Timothy ::  talk  19:17, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 03:21, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions.  Megan Barris   (Lets talk📧)  18:42, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions.  Megan Barris   (Lets talk📧)  18:42, 5 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep, while the reason people care about him is that he is Karl's father, we have sources about him and publications from Heinrich that show some notability. By all means get rid of most of the "Literature" section (copied from the German Wikipedia, where such uncommented lists of possibly relevant texts are commonplace). But I'd rather suggest to trim the content about his father in the Karl Marx article and send people here instead of merging anything into that already very long article. —Kusma (t·c) 20:43, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It would be interesting to read some of the articles by Heinz Monz mentioned in this bibliography that appear to focus on the elder Marx, for example " Die rechtsethischen und rechtspolitischen Anschauungen des Heinrich Marx" mentioned here. We even have a detailed list of the books in Heinrich Marx' library: p. 128, to mention another example of material about Heinrich, not Karl. —Kusma (t·c) 20:52, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If I understand correctly, Heinz Monz, was writing about the collection of books/literature that Heinrich possessed right? Or were the books/literature the works of Heinrich? - hako9 (talk) 23:31, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
 * ,Heinz Monz has written several articles about Heinrich Marx, for example one about his legal ethics and legal politics. He has also listed the books that Heinrich Marx owned, and an annotated version of that list is in an article by Manfred Schöncke that I linked to above. Overall, together with interest in the semi-forced conversion of Heinrich Marx to Christianity, I think there is well enough to write a decent article (WP:V), and material by sufficiently many people to pass WP:N. —Kusma (t·c) 09:08, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That seals the deal for a keep, atleast for me. The fact that multiple authors at the time (pre-internet era), have written about his life in sufficient detail, should establish notability individually. - hako9 (talk) 19:28, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 05:24, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I understand that notability is not inherited but there is sufficient content here to warrant a standalone article. Also, when the main article gets too verbose, we usually WP:SPLIT the content anyways. If we look at this article as an article about Karl's relationship with his father as a standalone article, which can't be merged to Karl Marx's article because it's too large, we can argue for a keep. Also, the section about his life cites a book (by Allan Megill) whose subject although is Karl, but it also focusses on Heinrich and his life too. In the "after conversion" section notable historian Isaiah Berlin writes about Heinrich in particular too, although again, the subject of the book is Karl. Also, the works section cannot be discounted/disregarded. Not having access to/or not having read the works doesn't mean they aren't notable works. - hako9 (talk) 23:31, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: I think this argument from - "If we look at this article as an article about Karl's relationship with his father as a standalone article..." - has substantial merit to consider. Thanks hako9. <span style="font-family:Courier New, Courier, monospace;">  // Timothy ::  talk  00:28, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep -- "Not inherited" is an important principle for WP, but it is not applied in the case of the most notable people. With Karl Marx among the most significant people of the period, members of his close family may also be notable.  I accept that the article is in fact largely about the background and upbringing of Karl Marx.  We often have articles on relatives of American presidents, for example.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:09, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.