Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heisler Beer


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:03, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Heisler Beer

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of random trivia. There are no reliable sources that are significantly about this fictional beer. The supposed "sources" that are mentioned on the talk page are blogs, discussion boards and Youtube clips, which are not and cannot be reliable sources. The project does not benefit in any way from having a list of every appearance of this non-existent placeholder product. Otto4711 (talk) 16:41, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep This seems to be a product of International Studio Services - the largest prop house for Hollywood which also supplies fake brands such as Jekyll Island Red Ale. Such a major player merits an article and so I shall be bold and move this there.  Per our editing policy, such action is better than deletion. Colonel Warden (talk) 18:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There do not appear to be independent reliable sources that significantly cover the prop house either, despite your disruptive move. Otto4711 (talk) 20:39, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I see no evidence that Heisler Beer is connected to International Studio Services anyway. It's nowhere on their website. bd2412  T 23:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You are mistaken. Please see Beer page at ISS. This indicates that they have several lines of fictional beer.  I suppose that Heisler is the most used as it seems similar to Budweiser but the others seem to get some usage too.  Colonel Warden (talk) 23:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I stand corrected. Still, since this is a "fake" brand, how do you know that there aren't a dozen prop houses that provide "Heisler" beer? bd2412  T 00:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hello, I'm APS221. I'm the user who created the Heisler Beer article. I would be happy to discuss the article with other Wikipedia users. While I'm no beer connoisseur, I was curious about Heisler Beer after seeing it in several movies and television shows. I looked online and found some posts on beer connoisseur websites/message boards and the ISS/StudioGraphics website. I created this page as an answer to those questions, and a list of appearances. I looked for Wikipedia rules on articles about fictional brands and products. I found the article about Morley Cigarettes, and used it as a template. It is also a fictional product produced by ISS/StudioGrapics. When I first created this article, I included information about ISS/StudioGraphics and a link to the website to establish notability. However, a user called TheRedPenOfDoom deleted the references and links. He claimed that it violated WP:EL and acted as an advertisment for ISS/StudioGraphics. In fact, he nominated the Morley Cigarette article for deletion. The result was "keep," and I believe it sets a precident for articles about fictional brands and products. As a result, I vote to keep and restore the Heisler Beer article to the way it was prior to Otto4711's AfD tag. APS221 (talk) 02:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This other thing exists so my thing should exist too is not a legitimate rationale for keeping. For an article to exist on Wikipedia there need to be reliable sources that offer significant coverage of the subject. Please offer up such sources for Heisler Beer. Otto4711 (talk) 03:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * reply Thats a good point. However, I think the AfD discussion about Morley Cigarettes is relevant to the AfD discussion about Heisler Beer. Dravecky made a good point. The appearance of Heisler Beer in numerous unrelated movies and television (published works) helps establish notability. What I don't want to do is add links and end up arguing about their legitimacy. APS221 (talk) 06:19, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So then, you can offer up no reliable sources that significantly cover this non-existent beer. Got it. Otto4711 (talk) 13:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Indeed. Morley Cigarettes is very relevant to this discussion and so WP:WAX is not a significant objection. Colonel Warden (talk) 06:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Independent Studio Services as the company is being covered in depth in reliable sources. The move of Heisler Beer to this name confused my search, since one called "Heisler Hefeweizen" is a real beer brewed by Laguna Beach Brewing. The article will benefit from cleanup and sourcing per WP:POTENTIAL and WP:PRESERVE, with a shift of emphasis from the beer itself to all the work of the company that makes so many terrific props. but AfD is not for WP:CLEANUP.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 04:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * very weak Keep as notable fictional product. If this is the one widely used in film, then its work the article. But if so, surely somebody has noticed it before us?  Otherwise this is perhaps too close to OR to be really satisfactory. DGG (talk) 05:03, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * reply/comment Heisler Beer is not the only fictional brand of product produced by ISS/StudioGraphics. I wouldn't mind trying to add other notable fictional brands produced by ISS. Colonel Warden added Jekyll Island Beer (both lager and red ale), which is another fictional beer brand produced by ISS. There are a lot of posts on online message boards/forums and blogs about Jekyll Island Beer and Penzburg Beer. I think many of the posts come from the fact that they were both seen in recent episodes of Lost, and details in the show are frequently scrutinized by viewers/fans. In addition, ISS produces Morley Cigarettes, as well as other brands such as Bilson and Brezza. Both Bilson and Brezza have been discussed online, mostly in reference to their appearance in "Lost." APS221 (talk) 06:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep And indeed it should be noted that the article is about a quite notable prop company now, and not just the beer prop that they came up with. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:41, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep I'm not sure that the Heisler Beer article could have been expanded as much as one for the parent company. Far from being a "disruptive move", the rename allows the additional material about the parent company and its other pseudo-brands to be discussed comprehensively in one article for a company that meets the notability standard. Alansohn (talk) 14:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Very week keep. This is currently a laundry list of appearances of the product. An article about the prop company would be far better, and this article may be worth moving there. Stifle (talk) 12:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.