Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Helen Bousquet


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  MBisanz  talk 17:36, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Helen Bousquet

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Music career fails Notability (people) and Notability (music). Coverage about her death does not warrant a biography per WP:ONEEVENT. Hirolovesswords (talk) 10:04, 6 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Helen Bousquet is a songwriter who has written songs produced and being produced by one of the top ten music producers of all time (Narada Michael Walden, as noted on his Wikipedia page). This is the same producer of Whitney Houston, Elton John, and George Michael. It is absurd to suggest that she does not meet Notability. Additionally, Helen Bousquet is now a champion to the cause of Sleep Apnea, and The American Sleep Apnea Association has placed her on their home page (www.sleepapnea.org), with numerous politicians investigating her untimely death. She has received national attention and has brought sleep apnea to national attention in health care. This is the second time in two days that you have suggesting deleting her page, and yet from U.S. Senator John Kerry's investigation, to The American Sleep Apnea Association, Helen Bousquet does not merely represent information about a music career, but the health care system. Croonerman (talk) 10:18, 6 January 2013 (UTC) — Croonerman (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * This woman is becoming the national face of the Sleep Apnea disorder. No one ever has before. SleepApnea.org lists her on their home page, and the references on her Wiki page more than confirms notability on a national level as it pertains to what occurred to her. This is not merely a "death," but a death that has resulted in national attention to the disorder that is sleep apnea. She is the only person ever to die from it to be placed on the home page of The American Sleep Apnea Association. Numerous national stories have been written of her, and the multiple state and federal investigations into her death. Croonerman (talk) 10:24, 6 January 2013 (UTC) — Croonerman (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Coverage about her Rodney King, also one event, certainly did warrant a biography per WP:ONEEVENT. Helen Bousquet, also in this event, has brought national attention to a cause as he did. She is also the mother of one of the most famous big band singers in the world, Brian Evans. Croonerman (talk) 10:27, 6 January 2013 (UTC) — Croonerman (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Delete per nom, note to the creator being the mother of a famous person does not garuntee notability and I'm not seeing coverage for her in the news. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 10:53, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Hirolovesswords (talk) 10:57, 6 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - there's are a lot of WP:INHERIT here and I would suggest the original author read that guideline before making further comment here. Quite plainly, I don't think the subject meets WP:GNG. The above claims to notability aren't really valid claims - we need more than, "her death prompted an investigation" or "she met x". Stalwart 111  12:01, 6 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment - The coverage of her in the news is listed in the reference section of the page. From CNN to New England Cable Network, to the home page of The American Sleep Apnea Association. Croonerman (talk) 19:34, 6 January 2013 (UTC) — Croonerman (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * I will make additional entries to correct the issues being discussed. Please give me a day to make the corrections that will meet the guidelines stated. This page had already been contested A7, but editors agreed with me that the page did not meet those guidelines and should remain. Croonerman (talk) 19:42, 6 January 2013 (UTC) — Croonerman (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * That's a good idea, and AFDs usually run for 7 days, so you likely have a few days rather than just one. The fact that an article does not meet the criteria for speedy deletion does not mean it meets the criteria for inclusion, only that a discussion (here) is required to ensure the right decision is made via WP:CONSENSUS. Stalwart 111  20:51, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:44, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:44, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Do you find this new reference link relevant? See: http://hampton-northhampton.going.com/articles/william-shatner-supports-hampton-beach-nh-street-change Croonerman (talk) 15:30, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

If anyone could assist me in editing this page so that it meets the guidelines, please do advise. I would appreciate the help. Sleep apnea is an important issue, and she is now the face of the cause (see sleepapnea.org). Croonerman (talk) 16:52, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, Croonerman, "Sleep apnea is an important issue, and she is now the face of the cause (see sleepapnea.org)" means something like "I want an article on her to act as publicity for a cause", which is totally inconsistent with Wikipedia's policies. It amounts, in fact, to saying that the purpose of keeping the article is to use it for promotion of a cause. JamesBWatson (talk) 10:45, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete I have checked every one of the references in the article. Some of them do not even mention Helen Bousquet, and the main focus of most of the others is not her, but her son and the campaign he has been running following her death. None of them comes anywhere near to showing notability of Helen Bousquet by Wikipedia's criteria. I will list all the references below, with a brief comment about each. The only fact about her (not about her son and his campaigning) which has any significance or newsworthiness is that she died in circumstances which have led her son to question the treatment she received in hospital. This is about as extreme a case of WP:ONEVENT as I can remember seeing for quite some time. Attempts are made above to make her seem notable for reasons other than her son's campaign after her death, but they fail. For example, at the very beginning of this discussion, we read "Helen Bousquet is a songwriter who has written songs produced and being produced by one of the top ten music producers of all time ... This is the same producer of Whitney Houston, Elton John, and George Michael". However, this is an attempt to make notability inherited by contact with other notable people: it is about as reasonable as if I were to claim to be notable enough to be the subject of a Wikipedia article because I attended the same university as Isaac Newton and Bertrand Russell.
 * As promised above, here is an annotated list of the references in the article.
 * (1) http://helenbousquet.com/, which describes itself as "The official website of Helen Bousquet", and says "Helen Bousquet is my mother"; (2) a page on the web site of The Boston Globe, with no mention of her; (3) a page on the web site of The Valley Patriot, with no mention of her; (4) a page at www.thefreelibrary.com, advertising a book, with one mention of her name as one of several contributors to the book; (5) www.sleepapnea.org, with no mention of her; (6) a page at finance.yahoo.com, announcing that her son has complained to the FBI about her treatment in hospital, stating that the FBI were "assessing the situation"; (7) a news report about the fact that her son has raised questions about the treatment she received in the hospital where she died; (8) a brief CNN news report, reporting that an investigation has been set up into the circumstances of her death, and that her son has set up a website about it; (9) a Yahoo page announcing that her son complained to US Senator John Kerry about her treatment in hospital, and that Senator Kerry passed the complaint on to the Board of Medicine; (10) a news report announcing that her son has contacted former Vice President Dan Quayle as part of what he describes as "his efforts to seek justice for his mother"; (11) an announcement that William Shatner is supporting her son's campaign to have a street named after her. JamesBWatson (talk) 10:45, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

The above statement by this editor is almost outrageously wrong.

He says there is "no mention of her at SleepApnea.org. Wrong: http://www.sleepapnea.org/asaa-blog/tragic-and-unnecessary-loss-of-life.html

She is also on the homepage of sleepapnea.org, the only national organization in America surrounding the condition. The headline is "Tragis and Unnecessary Loss of Life." Again, he is wrong.

He says there is "no mention of her" at ValleyPatriot.com, a newspaper in New England. Wrong: http://valleypatriot.com/state-senators-initiate-investigation-into-the-holy-family-hospital/ (and about five other stories on the homepage scroll of this newspaper).

Just how much "research" are you doing when you state there is "no mention of her" as I have just clearly confirmed is not accurate in every single reference that you have made above that claimed there is "no mention of her." It's concerning, and frankly if I were you, a little embarrasing. Every statement you made above that claimed she did not appear....I just confirmed otherwise in about two minutes. You obviously did not look that hard.

Croonerman (talk) 11:06, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

The woman is also in the movie preview for "At Fenway," which is the only song ever written about Fenway Park to be licensed by MLB, and she co-produced this video. The thing is running nationwide in America in every movie theater: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf_v6ulHktI, and is produced by Narada Michael Walden. It's had over 50,000 views in a matter about about two weeks.

Croonerman (talk) 11:12, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I think the problem is that the sleep apnea coverage of her is not really coverage. Yes, that blog post (see WP:BLOGS) is currently linked to from the main page but neither includes her name. The only reason we know that's her is that the photo links to the son's site about her. They could only be considered one source in any event and as the "blog post" is actually just a link to her site, all "three" could probably only be considered one source, per WP:N. I would question whether a self-published site created by her son would be a WP:RS by our standards; probably not. There's just no "significant coverage" there. Stalwart 111  11:47, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * So the editor (JamesBWatson) is right when he says there is "no mention of her" in those sources - she is not mentioned by name. You may know it is her and we may deduce that it is, but she is not identified. I can't imagine a scenario where a source that doesn't mention the subject could be considered significant coverage of that subject, or even an acceptable source at all. Stalwart 111  11:52, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. And, what is more, even the page where she appears, but not by name, is a different page on the www.sleepapnea.org website than the one referenced in the article. I never made any statement about whether she is mentioned anywhere at all on the web site. (How could I? For all I know there may be other pages there that I haven't seen.) All I said was that she is not mentioned on the page which is linked to in the reference in the article, and that is true. There is a link on the page referenced to another page, which has a picture of her (but no mention of the fact that it is a picture of her). To take that as being a "mention" of her on the page referenced is nonsense. And to use that as a basis for saying that I was "almost outrageously wrong" when I said that the page referenced in the article does not mention her is, frankly, ridiculous. Likewise, the page at the "Valley Patriot" website linked above is a different one from the one that is linked from the "references" section of the article. The idea that I should find it "embarrasing" (sic) that it turns out that you really meant a different page from the one you provided a link to is a little odd, to say the least. JamesBWatson (talk) 21:27, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment I have now converted some of the bare links in the article into references.--Racklever (talk) 10:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete - As per nom. While I am sorry for the bereaved family, particularly where there is additional pain because of the apparent avoidability of the loss, the article must meet Wikipedia standards. There are any number of people who have suffered similar ends, who have not had offspring or friends who were in a position to make a fuss about it. The existing news coverage amounts to a kind of inherited notability; it has been created, not earned by inherent notability.  David_FLXD  (Talk) 04:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.