Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Helen Smith (New Zealand politician)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. This decision does not rule out a proper redirect discussion on the talk page. J04n(talk page) 11:42, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Helen Smith (New Zealand politician)

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

unref blp (for 7 years). Doesn't meet WP:POLITICIAN Boleyn (talk) 13:02, 28 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - Having visited the digital archives for the NZ Herald and the Christchurch Press, I've learned that Helen Smith the the namesake of a community room in Porirua, with no trace of coverage about her as the subject of articles. While I am, in general, highly inclined to keep biographies of non-living elected minor party politicians, it does not seem that this subject meets muster according to our General Notability Guideline, nor is election to the Porirua City Council sufficient to pass the special guideline for politicians. Carrite (talk) 17:14, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I will get out of the way per the argument of Unscintillating below... Carrite (talk) 03:05, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.  czar   &middot;   &middot;  18:45, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions.  czar   &middot;   &middot;  18:45, 28 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment I found evidence of the 1975 and 1978 elections in the national library:
 * http://natlib.govt.nz/records/22382043?search%5Bpath%5D=items&search%5Btext%5D=Helen+Smith+Porirua+Values+Party
 * http://natlib.govt.nz/records/23062058?search%5Bpath%5D=items&search%5Btext%5D=Helen+Smith+Porirua+Values+Party
 * It is not a lot, but it shows that the material in the article is credible. Unscintillating (talk) 02:34, 29 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment Here is a source with one sentence that shows that the topic is legendary (whether or not wp:notable):
 * http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/local-papers/kapi-mana-news/3910348/Pukerua-Bay-artist-seeks-seat-on-Porirua-council
 * I'm also seeing many links to the Helen Smith Community Room at the Pataka Museum, that seats over 300  80, and has held at least 150, but don't have a source that connects the room to the topic.  There is also a Helen Smith Family Award again with an unclear connection to the topic, but the reference to art in both the one source and this mention makes it likely that more research can provide a connection.  Unscintillating (talk) 03:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - no question.Deb (talk) 17:12, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment This looks interesting, from a writer for the British Manchester Guardian, printed in the U.S. The Spokesman-Review, Sep. 9, 1973, "Helen Smith is the first elected representative of a new political party which sent shock-waves through both the established parties at New Zealand's general election, and which each of them would dearly love to assimilate before next time."  Unscintillating (talk) 03:01, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep or incubate Satisfies WP:ANYBIO #2, fails WP:V.  As per the recent ruling at Articles for deletion/Charity Engine, not all closers support WP:V, so depending on the ruling regarding WP:V, this might be either a keep or an incubate.  Unscintillating (talk) 03:22, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Changing !vote to Delete and redirect to Values Party IMO, in addition to satisfying WP:N, this article severely fails the WP:V policy.  WP:Deletion policy states, "If the article's content severely fails the verifiability or neutral point of view  policies, but when the topic is notable, the article may be reduced to a stub or completely deleted by consensus at WP:AfD."  See also the discussion at WP:Verifiability.  Unscintillating (talk) 22:48, 17 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete or mention in context of Porirua City Council - does not have enough notability to stand on her own. True there is a room at the Council's museum named after her and a prize but not really even nationally (NZ) significant NealeFamily (talk) 05:51, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete - An article that has been unsourced for seven years is not likely to be sourced in the near future.   Robert McClenon (talk) 14:56, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment Here are two references to her from Index NZ; Evening Post 10 September 2001 p18 & Dominion Post 17 January 2008 pB7. I would not expext to find references to her in the Auckland “Herald” or Christchurch “Press”. But local body politicians are not generally notable, apart from Mayors. Hugo999 (talk) 00:10, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That is now six sources. One more source, and the dead link has persisted since 30 April, but the snippet shows wp:notability:
 * "Helen Smith spent her final months recounting her life, and now the pages of her memoir Keep Telling Stories... She was a Porirua city councillor for nearly 30 years and a driving force ... " Unscintillating (talk) 03:51, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Question I must admit to being puzzled, now that we know that this topic's election sent shock-waves through NZ, and the election was reported around the world, why is there anyone left questioning wp:notability?  Unscintillating (talk) 03:51, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment Unscintillating has done an excellent research job here. I've copied and pasted the external links into the article, obviously they need more work, but they're now available for readers and can be worked on. This still doesn't meet WP:POLITICIAN but now seems WP:GNG has been established. Change vote to keep Boleyn (talk) 05:09, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J04n(talk page) 00:46, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

 
 * Keep - covered in multiple reliable sources, some international, which establish her notability. Although her initial election received the vast majority of coverage, the article written after her death shows this is not just ONEEVENT.  Good to see the sources listed in the article, making this information verifiable.  It would be better to reference each statement with them, but that needn't affect this discussion. Warofdreams talk 09:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mkdw talk 01:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep on the merits, as per Unscintillating's fine work. UltraExactZZ Said~ Did 19:34, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Values Party; subject received passing mentions in articles where the Values Party received significant coverage such as this mention in the Los Angeles Times, and the Spokane Review, but outside of that the subject herself has not received significant coverage from non-primary reliable sources and thus fails WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO. That being said the subject is a notable first for the Values Party, and as the subject received brief mention in relation to the party, but is not considered notable per WP:POLITICIAN a mention of the subject of this AfD in the article about the party maybe able to preserve the article as a search term.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 06:20, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.