Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Helmut Fink


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. The consensus below is that being the last surviving Friekorps veteran is not a sufficient claim to notability and that the available sources do not support notability on any alternative bases (such as for his musical career). Eluchil404 (talk) 03:26, 8 October 2015 (UTC)'''

Helmut Fink

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No evidence of meeting WP:N's requirement of non-trivial coverage in multiple, reliable third-party sources. Although it has been unsourced for five years, there are a few out there (such as this one), but nothing that rises above the level of routine coverage. Being the "last known German Revolution veteran and the last German World War I-Era veteran" is his claim to notability, but this is the only encyclopedic fact available and could be (and is) noted at list of last surviving World War I veterans and list of last living war veterans; per past precedent, being the last or oldest of X is not sufficient in and of itself for a stand-alone article. Canadian  Paul  19:04, 14 September 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment his age is verified by the two newspaper articles, I added the sources, he was a member of a Freikorps (i.e. revolutionary irregular paramilitary troops), aged 17–18, he was definitely not a veteran of WWI (that's the reason why the awkward construction "last Worl War I era veteran" is used), he was an orchestra musician (first flautist of one of the most famous German orchestras) but I haven't been able to dig up much on the web about possible solo performances, he was active from the 1920s to the 1970s, definitely pre-internet. Also, the death date is OR, it may be true, but no source found yet, only some Wiki mirrors. Also his name was spelled "Helmuth" (according to the newspapers). Kraxler (talk) 00:51, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Courcelles (talk) 00:58, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:25, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:25, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:25, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:25, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Sam Sailor Talk! 03:04, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. If the claim to be the last living survivor of the 1918/19 Freikorps is accurate then I would say he is notable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:50, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. IMO, even being the last survivor of a noted unit, say the Roughriders, wouldn't qualify for a standalone article (Jesse Langdon gets a paragraph in the main article); a paramilitary organization certainly doesn't, and he doesn't satisfy WP:SOLDIER. Two newspaper articles (from the little I can read) don't seem to meet WP:MUSICBIO either. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:20, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The Freikorps wasn't a single notable unit. It was a large group of organisations that defined an era and was involved in what was effectively a civil war. Bit of a difference. I think the last surviving veteran of the SA or the SS might be considered notable, don't you? Same thing. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:37, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Even worse. It isn't even a single, well-defined unit. How in the world would you ever be able to prove the claim? Clarityfiend (talk) 23:50, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * There are documents and lists for everything in Germany. For more info see Freikorps. Kraxler (talk) 00:22, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The consensus seems to be that being the last survivor of a famous unit is not notable on its own. Why would a lesser claim? Clarityfiend (talk) 01:15, 5 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete - While we tend to treat gerontology-driven Bio with kid gloves, the fact that the Freikorps was a broad alliance of right wing/nationalist paramilitaries rather than a single outfit does degrade the notability hook of this biography. This is additionally defective in the way BLP-1E rules articles on living people defective: an ordinary individual with the accidental fact of having lived a long time. There is a rational keep argument to be made, but I'm non the other side of the fence myself... Carrite (talk) 17:08, 4 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.