Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Henry Hyde (Kayaker)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. T. Canens (talk) 08:39, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Henry Hyde (Kayaker)

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Contested prod; fails WP:ATHLETE. StAnselm (talk) 04:49, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete No evidence of notability; all references just state that he exists. fuzzy510 (talk) 06:42, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- -- Cirt (talk) 20:34, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep He has accomplished several feats no other child his age has ever even attempted to accomplish. He is the defacto two-time US National Champion in Whitewater Slalom Kayaking K1, in the Cadet Class. Feats he accomplished at age 8 and age 9. His start in the competitive side of whitewater sports at age 6 and his subsequent domination in slalom, freestyle, and downriver racing has redefined how coaches in the sport disciplines look at kids and their ability to develop as top competitors. He has in fact competed at the national and international level in both the USA and Canada and is ranked 29th overall in the USA across all classes in Men's K1. Would suggest you research a bit more before summarily pursuing a delete. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maddrokayaker (talk • contribs) 21:27, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * KEEP This kid is a nationally known and accomplished athlete. He kinda exploded on the scene about 4 or 5 years ago and has been rocketing upwards ever since. He's a crowd favorite wherever he goes and has become a household name in the paddling community, that's my two cents worth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.35.13.251 (talk) 21:52, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep Henry meets the criteria for ATHLETE. He has competed here in Canada in the Canada Cup series in Ottawa and Ontario and medaled in 2009 with 2 Silvers in Slalom, and a Bronze in Mixed C2. As far as I know he is still the top of the class in the USA Whitewater Slalom rankings in Cadet Men's K1. This is a kid who will be competing at Olympic Trials next year in the US at 11 years old if my math is right. Definitely well known and I think whoever posted a delete notice doesn't know much about whitewater or the athletes involved and their notability. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SpikeItOnce (talk • contribs) 21:59, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Please provide reliable third-party sources to tell us about whitewater athlete notability, then. --Goobergunch|? 22:28, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 *  Keep Comment here are his current rankings for 2010: http://www.whitewaterrankings.com/profiles/?class=K1 - This ought to speak for itself, but then again, if you aren't in the sport, just simply don't know.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by SpikeItOnce (talk • contribs) 22:06, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Provisional delete. Article fails WP:SELFPUB point 5.  The additional sources merely state that the individual exists and provide kayaking competition results without context (which are not considered reliable sources under WP:NOTNEWS). I would be willing to reconsider this !vote should reliable third-party coverage be demonstrated. --Goobergunch|? 22:28, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  —StAnselm (talk) 23:10, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 *  Keep Comment - Sources
 * 1) http://canoekayak.com/features/stories/high-water-highlights-fibark/
 * 2) http://www.lyonsoutdoorgames.com/events/slalomresults.html
 * 3) http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/article_502a71ca-7cf0-11df-babe-001cc4c002e0.html
 * 4) http://jacksonkayak.com/blog/2009/07/10/sage-update/
 * 5) http://www.kayak-adventures.org/documents/AGN2009Results.pdf
 * 6) http://www.paddlinglife.net/article.php?id=438
 * 7) http://www.kayakinstruction.org/Kayak_Instruction/Newsletter/Entries/2009/4/25_Rapid_Advancement,_April_2009.html
 * 8) http://www.whitewaterracing.org/JrTeamTrialsPress.htm
 * 9) http://www.redriverracing.org/Henry_Hyde.html
 * 10) http://www.facebook.com/pages/Henry-H-Bomb-Hyde/260450684499?v=wall
 * 11) http://salidacitizen.com/2010/06/world-national-champs-shine-at-fibark-freestyle-comp/
 * 12) http://www.themountainmail.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID=19467
 * 13) http://www.usawildwater.com/news/2008/2008_FIBArk_Downriver.pdf
 * 14) http://www.fibark.net/results-2010/2010-Downriver-Race-All.pdf
 * 15) http://usack.org/news/front_features
 * 16) http://itsgametimesomewhere.com/2010/10/03/everything-i-know-about-canoes-kayaks-i-learned-at-the-national-slalom-championships/
 * 17) http://www.whitewaterslalom.us/gateway-project.html
 * 18) http://www.whitewaterslalom.us/2010_Regional_Teams.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.35.13.251 (talk) 14:44, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The only non-self-published source in that list that really has anything more substantial than a list of standings is #16, and even that doesn't give me much more than "Henry Hyde has been competing in junior kayaking competitions since 2007, including the 2010 USA Canoe/Kayak Slalom National Championships." The speculation about 2016 is interesting, but "predicted sports team line-ups" are specifically barred under the policy against unverifiable speculation. --Goobergunch|? 17:26, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * #16 certainly looks self-published. StAnselm (talk) 23:04, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I meant "self-published" in the sense of WP:SELFPUB. Agreed that it doesn't pass WP:BLPSPS. --Goobergunch|? 17:56, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

 Keep - Until the category of notability in sports for a whitewater category is settled. See: Notability (sports) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maddrokayaker (talk • contribs) 05:22, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 *  Keep Comment - Basically the persons submitting this article for deletion have no stake in the article. None are involved in the whitewater community and have no knowledge of its workings, who the players are, or the events. So I think I have to take serious issue with the submission for deletion. I come from the competitive whitewater community, I personally know the subject of the article, and with the exception of articles written stating times and finishes, very little press coverage is ever done with whitewater paddlers. That being said, this kid is the real deal and is very well known in by every current US Olympian, and former US Olympian, including 3-time slalom world champion, Scott Shipley and 4-time freestyle world champion, Eric "EJ" Jackson. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SpikeItOnce (talk • contribs)
 * Wikipedia has a policy against original research. Personal knowledge is generally not considered sufficient for inclusion in Wikipedia because there's no way for anyone else to independently verify it.  Are there any print sources that I might be able to find at a library to base an article around? --Goobergunch|? 17:26, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 *  KEEP  - Yes there are print sources at many libraries. Do your research — Preceding unsigned comment added by SpikeItOnce (talk • contribs)
 * I was kind of hoping that you could tell me what publications (preferably with specific issues) I should be looking in. --Goobergunch|? 18:13, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Canoe & Kayak, Kayak Magazine, Paddler Magazine, Kayak Session, and there are numerous newspaper articles, including Vail Daily. I guess I am having a hard time understanding why newspaper accounts, ESPN, etc aren't good enough? Also confused as to why no one has attempted to ferret out the fact that because of his age, he is by far the youngest ever in National competition (US Nationals for 2010) that this wouldn't be note-worthy. He does, by virtue of his age, own several unofficial records. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SpikeItOnce (talk • contribs)
 * Please "keep" only once. A vague handwave that soruces exists in these magazines is not sufficient.  Specifics of which issue and page numbers or online links are needed.  His results for his age may be remarkable.  Provide reliable sources covering this and the article will be kept.  Insisting that sources exist without providing them will not help. -- Whpq (talk) 18:28, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - The applicable guidlines are WP:GNG for general notability and WP:NSPORT as an athlete. With respect to general notability, I can find no signficant coverage in reliable sources.  All of the sources provided (and repeated) above are passing mentions or results listings.  These do not represent the reliable sourcing needed to establish notability.  With respect to notability as an athlete, there is no sport specific criteria for whitewater kayaking, but we can measure against the general guideline that the athlete needs to have competed at the highest level of his sport which simjply is not the case here. -- Whpq (talk) 17:19, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete. Basically per Whpg's argument, with which I agree. Note: I have just undone a number of edits to Notability (sports), which is what led me here in the first place. Drmies (talk) 05:10, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete, agree with what's been said above and even more profoundly because this is an article on a 10-year-old kid. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs • Editor review) 05:59, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - Wouldn't the fact that he is indeed 10 years old be remarkable for the level he competes at be notable? Think about your logic here. You're saying because he's 10, it's just not notable. I find that argument weak and illogical. If anything, the fact that he competes at such a high level for one so young is indeed notable. This isn't playing soccer in the kiddie leagues, nor is it playing Little League Baseball in the Little League World Series. This is a serious endeavor in seriously dangerous situations. If you strike out in little league ball, it is simply an out. If you mess up in Class IV or Class V whitewater, your life could very well be over. There needs to further discussion on the creation of a Notability class for Whitewater Sports prior to deletion.
 * No, the fact that he's 10 years old only increases the potential for WP:BLP issues. Strange Passerby (talk • contribs • Editor review) 06:13, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The claim to notability being put forward is that being 10 years old and competes at a high level. All that needs to be brought forward is significant coverage in reliable sources.  - Whpq (talk) 13:46, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete. Perhaps we will coming back to this guy in the future, but the article currently fails WP:GNG and WP:ATHLETE. Location (talk) 05:42, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.