Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heriberto Vidales


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 16:48, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Heriberto Vidales

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Player has not appeared in a single professional match. Player has no appearances in league, cup or international play.  GoPurple  'n  Gold24   21:46, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 21:48, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 21:48, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Mexico-related deletion discussions. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 21:48, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:32, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. GiantSnowman 17:46, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - He has not played in a fully pro league or received significant coverage, meaning the article fails WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik (talk) 02:48, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - Fails WP:NFOOTY as has not played senior international football nor played in a fully professional league. No indication that subject has garnered significant reliable coverage for any other achievements to satisfy GNG. Fenix down (talk) 16:16, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - Player meets WP:NFOOTY. Fenix down (talk) 07:13, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete - no professional games played Spiderone  17:56, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: I can't find any references for the matches he's played, but if he did play for the Pumas then he certainly passes WP:NFOOTY. FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  02:08, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep. Player did play for Pumas, according to the Liga MX link already in the article, where it says "Debut"..... But not in the league, in the Clausura 2013 Copa MX: the sheet for the match, which was against the fully professional opponents Puebla, shows him as a very late substitute. The corresponding Soccerway page shows only two substitutions, as opposed to the five that actually occurred, which is disappointing. Consensus is that cup matches between teams from fully professional leagues meet the spirit, if not the letter, of WP:NFOOTBALL. Although that was only a brief appearance a couple of years ago, the player is currently on loan at another team from a fully professional league, Toluca, so hasn't yet disappeared into obscurity. If he does disappear without making any further FPL appearances, feel free to bring him back here. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:37, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 00:35, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep: after checking the veracity of those facts, the guy did play in the match against Puebla, as according to the official website. Here we can see the starting lineup, and he was on the field for four minutes during that match. According to our consensus that cup matches between two fully-pro teams are valid, he does meet WP:NFOOTY. MYS  77  ✉ 21:15, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - The only coverage I can find of this player is brief mentions of his play for Pumas' under-17 and under-20 teams, and a mention of his appearance in the Copa MX. The article makes it clear that Pumas was using the Copa to play reserves ("fuerzas básicas"), so we can hardly consider that appearance to be on the same level as a fully-pro league match. Moreover a single appearance in a fully-pro league (especially for a handful of minutes) is not enough without some evidence of GNG compliance to keep an article (we've established consensus on this point in dozens of previous AfDs - Articles for deletion/Cosmos Munegabe is one of the first). Jogurney (talk) 15:27, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment - Jo, to clarify yor point, single appearances are fine when the player is still both active in FPLs and young. This guy is 22 and on loan at a team in an FPL. Fenix down (talk) 16:42, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's an accurate reflection of consensus - see Articles for deletion/Scott Sinclair (footballer born 1991). Young players with only a few (4 in Vidales' case) minutes of play in a cup match need to show some sign of GNG compliance. Jogurney (talk) 19:42, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Those players you have cited are those who technically pass WP:NFOOTY but have since dropped to a level not considered fully professional. This is a player who meets NFOOTY, is still active at a club in a fully professional league and is only 22. The players you mention are examples of individuals who made a couple of appearances at most and then completely disappeared from fully professional football.
 * Additionally, the inference in your comment that playing only a few minutes of football is relevant is misleading. NFOOTY makes no reference to duration of appearance, merely that an individual must have appeared. Fenix down (talk) 09:00, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
 * This article doesn't satisfy NFOOTY because it was a cup match (and one where Pumas clearly used its reserves). Even if it did satisfy NFOOTY (based on our interpretation that a cup match between two clubs from a fully-pro league is a deemed fully-pro league match - which is dubious when we know one of the clubs is not treating the competition like a fully-pro league match), there are a series of AfDs which indicate some evidence of GNG compliance is necessary when the article barely steps over the bright-line of NFOOTY. Vidales played in one cup match in early 2013, and hasn't played in anything approaching a fully-pro league since. That is very consistent with the Scott Sinclair AfD which was closed as delete. Jogurney (talk) 14:42, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You may wish to review your knowledge of the WP:FOOTY Deletion archive, there are numerous instances where it has been acknowledged that an appearance in a cup match between clubs from FPLs is sufficient to satisfy the spirit of NFOOTY.
 * I kind of get the impression that we're going round in circles, but I am working on the assumption that you do not remember the content of the Scott Sinclair article (career summary here). In that article the player had made a brief NFOOTY-satisfying appearance in 2008. The article was AfD'd in 2013, more than three years after reliable sources indicate his very brief career finished. The article in discussion here is about a player who has played in a country's top cup competition for an FPL team against another FPL team, is still in the early stages of this career and is on loan at another club in the same FPL. The two articles are not comparable.
 * I also think your comparison with Cosmos Munegabe I think is also wide of the mark. In my view this player, as he played in a full FIFA international, would probably be kept if he went to AfD now as he has played at the highest possible level of football.
 * Guess we'll have to agree to disagree thought! Fenix down (talk) 15:27, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I'll agree that this article is within a "gray area" of notability. An article about a player with one appearance in a cup-match between two clubs from fully-pro leagues can satisfy NFOOTY in certain circumstances (although I don't think they're present here). However, setting the notability guidelines aside, we can only write an article about Vidales that indicates he has played with under-17 and under-20 sides and joined a group of reserves in making a 4-minute cameo in a cup-match his club surely didn't take seriously. That doesn't suggest notability to me even if we could find the sources to meet the GNG. Jogurney (talk) 20:38, 21 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom, and several of the arguments by the above editors, particularly Jogurney.  Onel 5969  TT me 13:17, 22 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.