Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hex (Discworld)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to List of Discworld characters. Seraphimblade Talk to me 09:17, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Hex (Discworld)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Non-notable book character (or feature, I guess.) This computer appeared in the Discworld series. All of the article is in-universe coverage, except for the "Real world connections" section. References include an Imugr post and a blog post. Others are obliquely related at best. There's little critical analysis, and adequate independent notability is not supported by available references. Mikeblas (talk) 00:05, 12 September 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 01:16, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 09:18, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 16:03, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep and improve. Like most Discworld characters/features, Hex is a critique/satire of modern computers. It's mentioned and discussed in several places other than the expected coverage in Turtle Recall, Discworld Companion, and the Science of Discworld.  See, , and  for a few examples. There are many others when you include theses.  Obviously, needs these integrated and cleaned up. Jclemens (talk) 16:54, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * To be pedantic: Yes, the above listed sources indicate that GNG is met, hence the keep !vote. Jclemens (talk) 15:48, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * ...and if this is not kept, merging to Characters of Discworld list is policy based ATD; deletion is not a policy-based outcome when V is met and there is clearly an ATD. Jclemens (talk) 18:02, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. I remember looking at this before and concluding it is borderline notable, sadly, I didn't post any notes from my research anywhere I can find. A quick glance at GScholar and like reveals at least several mentions in passing, but whether we find two sources meeting WP:SIGCOV, I am unsure. I'll observe this discussion to see if we find something; User:Jclemens found some sources but did not assert the meet SIGCOV, so, errr. WP:THEREMAYBESOURCES is not good enough. I'd vote weak delete with preference to merge except the nagging feeling I did find something decent few years back (but, sigh, why didn't I add it to the article back then?). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 12:32, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 10:15, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete Per WP:TNT. It may possibly be notable, but no content from the article itself is salvageable; it's entirely fancruft and WP:TRIVIA. If someone wants to write a new article on the topic and try for actual notability, be my guest. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:50, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep As has been called out, the Hex appears in a number of secondary sources. In addition to those mentioned I would like to call out Elephants and Light Fantasy: Humour in Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, which analyzes how the Hex is funny as "deconstructive linguistic games which we expect from postmodernism" and the like. I also think that this is not a case of WP:TNT, as at least part of the introduction, some amount of the present plot summary (some of which can be referenced to said paper), and the appearances section can be used in an improved version of the article. Daranios (talk) 10:33, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep per points raised by Jclemens and others.--SouthernNights (talk) 17:23, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: Relisting because participants here are sharply divided between strong Delete and Keep. Is a Merge a possible third option? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:16, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete: a letter (to the editor) in New Scientist is not a reliable source (and is quite trivial), and has no more value here than a fan question or comment in comic book letter columns. Passing mentions and trivial pop-culture occurrences do not make an encyclopedia article. Make mine Marvel, but keep fancruft at fandom.com. --Animalparty! (talk) 01:39, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Please engage with the sources in the AfD, rather than just one (of five) currently present in the article. Also, I'm not getting the comic book references--while Discworld has been depicted elsewise, it started as chapter books, not graphic novels. Jclemens (talk) 06:35, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Another secondary source featuring the Hex is An Unofficial Companion to the Novels of Terry Pratchett, with at least plot summary on p. 424 and analysis of the name on p. 360, though I cannot see the full extent. Daranios (talk) 10:33, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. None of the sources in the article, nor any of those identfied by Jclemens, amount to significant coverage in reliable sources. The letter to the editor, anonymous blog post and streetdirectory.com "editorial" aren't reliable sources; the Flaig book is a reliable source but doesn't contain significant coverage of the subject; and while I haven't been able to consult the Nicholls book, it doesn't seem likely that a book published in 1979 can support the notability of a fictional character that first appeared in 1994. Cockrell 2006 and Manova-Georgieva 2010 are also both single-sentence mentions, and Noone and Leverett 2020 doesn't seem to mention Hex at all. Sources identified by Daranios do bring us closer to establishing notability: Duvezin-Caubet 2016 discusses the character in a bit of depth in §11, and Butler 2008 seems to have a bit more than a single sentence (I also can't access the full text). But assuming snippet view isn't hiding something of something surprising value from us, this isn't quite enough. We'd need at least one more source similar to Duvezin-Caubet for notability to be clear; I haven't been able to find anything beyond what's already been unearthed. The very poor present state of the article and the work that would be needed to improve it if sources were to be found tips this, for me, from a weak delete to a solid one. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 16:39, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. Article subject doesn’t meet WP:GNG and the sources do not amount to significant coverage. Rustytrombone (talk) 19:37, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete: doesn't amount to significant coverage to meet the WP:GNG. Agree with the assessment of Arms & Hearts. Shooterwalker (talk) 15:03, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to List of Discworld characters if the contents of the article can be sufficiently abridged without losing the sourced material, otherwise keep - I lean towards merging this from a WP:PAGEDECIDE perspective, but given other users have shown sourcing exists and given that this isn't a WP:BLP I think an argument exists for keeping this page if the content of the sources is enough to warrant more than a couple of paragraphs of coverage, especially given the list of Discworld characters is already rather long. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 12:46, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete: It's not meeting GNG criteria for a stand alone article. Leaning towards merging this page or maybe giving it a try by TNTing the whole page. -- M h hossein   talk 12:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to List of Discworld characters. There are is evidence so far of this clearly meeting GNG, at the same time, there are some passing mentions and like. Surprisingly, Hex is not added to the linked list. I suggest merging a brief summary plus whatever the best sources we have here and in the article say to that article. If the consensus is to delete, not merge, then we should do a redirect there instead. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:53, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to List of Discworld characters for consensus. If the consensus is to delete then a redirect would be preferred, as WP:ATD and to WP:PRESERVE. Something should definitely be written there but that can happen any time as long as this isn't deleted. Archrogue (talk) 20:12, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to List of Discworld characters per all above.4meter4 (talk) 01:09, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to List of Discworld characters. Bruxton (talk) 02:39, 4 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.