Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/High Zero (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep. Mostly Rainy 02:31, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

High Zero
Festival with no claims of notable insufficient claims of notability - only seems to be slightly notable on a local scale at best. Never seems to have had any notable performers, national coverage, etc... Deleted before with little objection, but apparently can't be speedied. See previous AFD: Articles for deletion/High Zero. Wickethewok 02:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Please note that some of the issues from the previous AFD do not apply to this article, as this article is not derived from the previous one. In particular, the objections of needing secondary sources for verifiability and copyvio are irrelevant wrt this article. AFIAK, only notability is in question. --Ravelite 04:43, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep - Festival was named in City Paper's Best of Baltimore in 2000. This is evidence of notability. --Ravelite 03:14, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Welcome to Wikipedia - I hope this AFD does not discourage any future contributions you plan to make here. Cheers!  :) Wickethewok 03:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep - I see two counts of notability mentioned in the article.--God Ω War 05:22, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment. No recommendation for the moment, but this festival does appear to be notable in my opinion. DarthVad e r 05:47, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Why do you believe it to be notable, Mr. Vader? Because it was awarded a not particularly notable award by the "alternative" weekly press publication that sponsored the event?  It looks like that is the only year they seem to have given out that award.  Do the winners of their "Best Drag Queen Award" also need their own articles?  Aside from this award, I don't really see any of assertions of notability, unless you count the "one of the largest festivals of it's type in the US", which is both unverified and vague.  Wickethewok 05:58, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

*Delete per nom. Until more notability is establishedZos 19:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC) Hi again. More notability evidence: Here's another mention of HZ in the City Paper, the second paragraph of which confirms other press the festival has earned: 2001 city paper reference "The first two years drew press attention from fringe-oriented music magazines such as Cadence and The Wire, but the fest also won the notice of more mainstream outlets such as The Washington Post and National Public Radio's All Things Considered."
 * Delete As Wickthewok. Receipt of non-notabe Awards does not confer notability. -- GWO
 * Weak keep It needs references and some more weight behind its claim of notability, but neither of those need to come from Ghits. If it can be cleaned up I say keep it, otherwise put in a sack and throw it in the lake. Yomangani 14:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. --NEMT 18:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep: Its notable enough now. SynergeticMaggot 01:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Sure, City Paper is an alternative press weekly, but I doubt it's lying.

To confirm the Washington Post references, please visit the archive search and type "High Zero" in quotes, or use this link

Notability of performers: In 2005, Phil Minton performed (listing in performers) and directed a Feral Choir at the festival. He's internationally known as a vocal improvisor who has developed extended vocal techniques since the seventies. If you web search his name, you'll come up with a variety of mentions on jazz sites, sound art sites, and listings in discographies.

On the Music_festivals page, observe that many genres (Jazz, Reggae, Country Music, Dance, etc) have festivals with articles in Wikipedia. However, the avant-garde genres are lumped together (Electronic/Electroacoustic/Experimental/Industrial/Noise/Sound Art) and only given links to outside sites. This may be a case of Systemic bias against these genres.

While editors may consider certain avant-garde genres obscure, their communities and musicians pursue them with as much dedication as in more popular genres. The material may be obscure to some music listeners, but is not a danger to wikipedia. It helps maintain a comprehensive representation of music across stylistic boundaries.

Thanks for the welcome. The quality of my writing will hopefully improve with practice. --Ravelite 01:49, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment A few points:
 * the evidence you cite for notability needs to be included in the article
 * you are free to edit the Music_festivals page to change the layout and links. It's less likely to be systematic bias than lack of interest in these categories from previous editors.
 * Lack of notability isn't a deletion policy (see WP:N). Personally I have a bias against deletion in cases where the article has an active champion unless it fails other tests, as it can be demoralising for editors to spend a lot of time on an article just to see it swept away (regardless of the advice not to be disheartened). Where a notability policy does apply, as with WP:MUSIC or WP:BIO we should apply it, but it seems a shame to remove articles on non-policy grounds when notability is arguable. Yomangani 11:00, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your comments! I have added washpost references, as well as mentioning Phil Minton in connection to the festival. Expanding the article will require more research and some time, but if you have any thoughts about it's current or future state, please let me know. --Ravelite 20:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * keep please it makes claims for notability and is interesting too Yuckfoo 22:45, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.