Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/High yield trading fund


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Jayjg (talk) 04:31, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

High yield trading fund

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  AfD statistics)

Not notable. The article includes zero sources, and I cannot find any independent sources myself. A "high yield trading fund" does not appear to be a standard term in the financial industry. Instead, it appears to be marketing language by a single company by the same name (which is the only source I can find for the term). See this web site. talk 13:46, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 13:51, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, coatrack spam, this rosy description is all about how you can make money fast on the Internet with this business's fund: the new generation of market instruments ... when cyber solutions (see cyber trading) for asset management become widely applicable.... In modern conditions, a market situation allows to obtain huge profits, including that from cyber-trading that detects and helps make use of even a tiny volatility. This technology is realized by various High Yield Trading Funds.... variety of funds, mechanisms, evaluation schemes, operating steps, even currencies involved, bring to investors a world of investment opportunities.... - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 15:57, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete I would have preferred to give this more than four days after I declined the speedy delete, but yeah - all the sources I have found evaporate on closer inspection. User:Wiseadviser - can you point out some independent sources for this term? - 2/0 (cont.) 16:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Dear editors,

1) Rosy description has been removed, now it is neutral, I hope. (after I complete the "Criticism and Risk Estimation" clause - there will be more risk warnings disclosed. Shall I complete it first?)

2) The name of the article was changed (see alternative names, too) - there are many links for the present name, please google and see.

3) Adding several referral links is in progress too. --Wiseadviser (talk) 09:41, 12 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Wiseadviser, our main gripe with the article is not that it is original research or poorly written, as neither of those are criteria for deletion. What we need from you are reliable, independent, verifiable sources which establish the notability of this financial product.  Notability is a requirement for every article on Wikipedia, per the general notability guidelines.     talk 13:13, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

In my article I try to provide the definition and review for the phenomena of "high yield (trading) fund". There are many companies which follow this concept, you may find "high yield (trading) fund" even in their names or news, so the definition for the phenomena can be described in Wikipedia, I think. And it is not present among Wikipedia articles yet. But the references directly to these companies means the marketing, I think should be escaped to keep the article neutral.

Here are example links to such companies (just some from the google search):

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/marketwire/0568308.htm

http://www.stockhouse.com/News/USReleasesDetail.aspx?n=7564569

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/chartingbasics_new.aspx?symbol=PHF&selected=PHF http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:HYF

http://www.pacholder.com/cm/Satellite?c=pacSitePage&cid=1222930502484&pagename=PacholderFunds/pacSitePage/pacTwoColumnTemplate

http://www.parexgroup.com/en/services/parex-funds/baltic-high-yield-fund/

http://www.stockhouse.com/Columnists/2009/Dec/1/Only-way-I-know-to-generate-12--incomesafely

And more links to online dictionaries:

http://lexicon.ft.com/term.asp?t=high_yield-fund

http://www.yourdictionary.com/finance/high-yield-fund

http://www.morningstar.nl/nl/glossary/default.aspx?articleid=76235&categoryid=488

--Wiseadviser (talk) 13:55, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Sources provided are about a mutual fund, not about this subject. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:48, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Dear ChildofMidnight,

These are quite separate and independent properties for some particular legal entity and its activity:

- "Mutual fund" is a proprietary property;

- "High yield fund" - characterizes its activity policy (strategy), relative yield amount (achieved or expected), and yield distribution policy.

I hope, that is obvious, - some "high yield (trading) fund" can be a kind of "mutual fund," but not necessarily. Some legal entity, being not a mutual fund, still can realize high yield trading concept and be a "high yield (trading) fund".

--Wiseadviser (talk) 23:22, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * So a "high yield trading fund" is a trading fund that promises to make you a lot of money? Sign me up! None of the article or Wiseadviser's clarifications make any sense to me.  But, that doesn't matter.  All I need to see is a few articles from reputable publications that are talking about high yield trading funds.  Not about one high yield trading fund in particular, but about high yield trading funds in general.    talk 03:40, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Dear SnottyWong,


 * PRIMA FACIE

Please kindly read the links to dictionary articles I have mentioned above. These dictionary articles are as follows:

a) Lexicon dictionary by Financial Times

http://lexicon.ft.com/term.asp?t=high_yield-fund

(see also an article in Wikipedia, what is Financial Times)

This definition article in Financial Times' Lexicon is sourced from the Longman Business English Dictionary (http://eltcatalogue.pearson.com/Course.asp?Callingpage=Catalogue&CourseID=UA)

b) yourdictionary.com dictionary

http://www.yourdictionary.com/finance/high-yield-fund

This definition article in yourdictionary.com is sourced from the Webster's New World Finance and Investment Dictionary (http://www.yourdictionary.com/finance/)

From your message it can be obviously concluded that these dictionary publications are counted by you as "not reputable", don't they? If so, then I just give up your appraisal! :)


 * THE SECOND

The High Yield Funds is named by me "trading" because only often, active and aggressive trading with securities of high liquidity can provide high yields to make them stable and escape excessive risks. The reasoning is represented below: In general, the high yields for the participants depend on how the following aspects of the Fund's activity policy (strategy) are fulfilled:

A)

How much yield the Fund itself earns currently.

B)

How the Fund hedges risks to maintain the yields stable and escape losses through the time (mathematical expectation must be positive).

C)

How the Fund shares earned yields among inside participants and public participants.

The yield of the Fund itself can be obtained by THREE possible ways:

I.

Operations with high rated securities. These can be traded automatically due to high liquidity, so that even tiny volatility fluctuations could be trapped. Also, the operations with high rated securities can be much easier hedged and ensured.

II.

Operations with low rated securities. These are usually poorly backed and often can lose liquidity, which means that the Fund cannot maintain mathematical expectation positive through the long period of time, applying more hedging schemes to such securities assume more difficulties as well, so excessive risks are present. Operations with such kind of securities cannot be frequent, and usually cannot be automated due to low predictability of proper and timely pricing.

III.

Here, I do not review illegal schemes, like Ponzi's or similar pyramidal enterprises, when a yield is not earned, but by fact is sourced from the next-stage participants' investments principals. This is illegal in most countries, nevertheless this kind of operations is the common practice of Governmental institutions, like Central Banks or Federal Reserve, with their bond and currency issuance and of non-governmental financial institutions, like banks, with their derivatives and credit issuance. But "Quod licet lovi, non licet bovi".

The said above clarifies that active and aggressive trading provides legal and stabile way for a Fund to have high yields. And the direction for optimization and modern technology application is defined. This is the argument, why I named the article "High yield (trading) fund" – to disclose the essence of this phenomenon (while the alternative names are - just "High yield fund" and "High yield trading" concept).


 * THE THIRD

Re. SnottyWong's phrase: "So a "high yield trading fund" is a trading fund that promises to make you a lot of money? Sign me up!"

The style allows me to ask: would you like to sign up to some enterprise which promises you much loss? I do state (and I hope, most people agree) that the promises (expectations and news) are the things which move the prices up and down mostly, - 99% are just subjective or virtual factors which habitate in collective mind, and 1% or so is the objective matter:

- Do Chrysler or GMC cars loss their qualities in the last couple of years?

- Does oil become exhausted from wells when its price raised 12 times or its consumption increased proportionally? And why in the last couple years it fell 5 times again, and during last half of a year raised twice again?

- Did the population grow 10 times so that real estate became 10-fold more? And why then the prices collapsed?

- Did Lehman Brothers run away to outer space with chests full of gold and cash?

The virtual sources effect the collective mind, the collective mind effects individual to make this or that decision, and these rule and make the market!

--Wiseadviser (talk) 10:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.