Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hindu extremism


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. Can&#39;t sleep, clown will eat me 11:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Hindu extremism

 * — (View AfD)

This page appears to be an attack page primarily meant to criticise "movement" it describes. Hindu extremism is a vague, non-scholarly term. The article only cites non-notable propagandist websites for sources like | Why War, | Freedom House(though the site itself claims to be secular, its agenda is clear from its partisan Christianocentric focus.), | Dissident Voiceand obscure "scholars". Whats more we already have NPOV articles on the movements that are generally given the appellation "Hindu extremism". See Hindutva, Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh ...  अमेय आर्यन DaBrood&#169; 19:02, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Speedy Delete - Its a neologism and is only sourced by blogs and partisan orgs. Also per WP:FRINGE, nearly everyone sourced in the article is regarded as a fringe figure, and none have any mainstream credentials. All the useful info is more apt for Hindu nationalism. Also wiki is not a soapbox for fringe views. Anti-Semites tried to push an article Jewish ethnocentrism which got deleted. This is hardly any different. Baka man  19:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: I wouldnt personally call his sources as terrorist organisations, but they are non-notable ideologically slanted websites nevertheless. अमेय आर्यन DaBrood&#169; 19:13, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete appears to be a neologism. --SunStar Nettalk 19:37, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep - we have articles on Islamic extremism and Christian extremism; this article's sources do suggest that Hindu extremism is a real phenomenon. The article needs cleanup and NPOV work.  --Hyperbole 19:37, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: The sources themselves are ideologivally slanted and op-ed's to boot.  अमेय आर्यन DaBrood&#169; 20:13, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep I have changed my vote since re-reading this articles: since there are sources that suggest this is real, it would be wrong to delete this. --SunStar Nettalk 19:38, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: Sources dont qulify WP:RS. अमेय आर्यन DaBrood&#169;</b> 20:18, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps thoroughly weed out the non-NPOV stuff and keep? I have seen the terms "Hindu extremist/-sm" in various media (newspapers, email groups) Anthony Appleyard 19:40, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment - Its definitely a neologism when it nets only 11k ghits most of which are b1ogs, terrorist sites and other sites not sanctioned by WP:RS ? It nets a large total of 53 ghits for educational sites. Compared to 1.25 million for Islamic extremism and and 1.1 million for Christian extremism it has no use outside anti-Hindu circles. The more used terms are Hindutva or Hindu nationalism (meaning "Hindu-ness") and nearly all accusations of Hindu extremism refer to only one group of orgs: the Sangh Parivar.  Baka  man  19:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete - propaganda--D-Boy 19:54, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Every word in language was a neologism once upon a time. If there are Hindus who are extremist-type in how they promote their religion, then they are Hindu extremists. Anthony Appleyard 19:57, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * They arent promoting their religion. The tag is only useful on one organization and therefore is useless as a wikipedia article. If you even took a cursory look at the ghits you would see the term hardly exists outside of partisan organizations unlike Islamic/Christian extremism. A made up connection of one attack on a Christian (most of these actually come from other Christians) to a religion riot in India, does not magically create a new pattern. Baka man  20:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. The concept of Hindu extremism is very real. Article needs some better citations, but that's just an editorial matter. --- RockMFR 20:03, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * But we *already have* a balanced article on movement regarded as Hindu extremism... Hindutva. <b style="color:#FF9933;"> अमेय आर्यन DaBrood</b><b style="color:red;">&#169;</b> 20:07, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Subject is covered in Hindutva. This is a hate propaganda page, and is actually quite reminiscent in style of German writings about Poland in Autumn/Fall 1939.--Anthony.bradbury 20:20, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete or substantially rewrite very soon : I don't agree with the idea that Hindutva and Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh adequately cover the issue of Hindu extremism: I see next to nothing in those articles about the attacks on Christians in some provinces of India. That being said, the current article is so POV that it needs to be deleted unless it can be fixed before the end of this discussion. If it is deleted, there should be no restriction against recreating it as an NPOV article. Heimstern Läufer 20:39, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That's because most of those attacks come from other Christians. The Bajrang Dal is the one and it has a rather legnthy criticism section. Baka man  20:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: Majority of those 'attacks' are insubtatiated allegations. Certain evangelist outlets exaggerate their extent. If you can provide reputed sources then you can add the info to Hindutva directly. <b style="color:#FF9933;"> अमेय आर्यन DaBrood</b><b style="color:red;">&#169;</b> 20:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Changed my position somewhat, as I've become rather skeptical of the idea that extremism can ever be NPOV. It would be good to have some coverage of the attacks that have occured (and yes, there are reliable sources for them), but I'll leave that to someone else. Heimstern Läufer 02:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete The creator of the article makes Hindu Extremism sound like a major organized movement. Not. It sounds like he's trying to foment violence himself, with casually tossed phrases like 'burned alive by a Hindu extremist mob', when there's no evidence that that the 'mob' was an organized band of 'Hindu extremists'. Speedy delete this attempt to stir up racial and religious hatred, please. &#2384; Priyanath talk 21:04, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete Complete POV and Anti-Hinduism, the only sources present are not NPOV. Like Priyanath says above, the creater of the article makes Hindu Extremism sound like a major organized movement. Hinduism doesn't even condone conversion, saying that anyone can be Hindu as long as they seek the truth.  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 21:27, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete:No Reliable Sources, Basically just Christisn Missionary Propaganda from National Liberation Front of Tripura and other xtremist groups. Rumpelstiltskin223 21:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep The article is supported by credible sources such as Freedomhouse and the topic is not notable enough that the article has the potential to grow. TSO1D 23:18, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. A good article on Hindu extremism could be written, but this is propaganda: phrases like 'virulent hate campaign' and assertions such as 'one of the basic elements of such extremist agenda is to vanquish or expel the 14 per cent of the population who are Christian and Muslim' are not a good start/ stub. Scrap and start again. Squiddy | (squirt ink?)  23:48, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep Every major religion has extremist elements. This one is no exception. Keep per Hyperbole. Edison 23:58, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment Islamic extremism is presently nominated for deletion on the same grounds as here Articles_for_deletion/Islamic_extremism. Rumpelstiltskin223 01:21, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment And now Christian extremism is also nominated for deletion per my comments below: Articles_for_deletion/Christian_extremism. 'Vote early and vote often' :-) &#2384; Priyanath talk 02:03, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as pure POV and as NobleEagle has said the sources are also POV. And per others. &mdash;  Arjun  00:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment I've looked at the Christian extremism article, since some of the 'keepers' here are suggesting that if we have one, we should have the other. If the Christian Extremism article were to be AfD'd I would vote 'delete' for that one also. It's now up for deletion here Articles_for_deletion/Christian_extremism. The very definition of what is Extreme depends entirely on one's Point of View (POV). Thus, there's no way to have an article on Hindu or Christian Extremism without it being mostly, or entirely POV. &#2384; Priyanath talk 00:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete or merge with Hindutva - from what I know and from the article, it is clear that the cases of extremism are not of religious kind but rather political. ←Humus sapiens ну? 01:21, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. SlimVirgin <sup style="color:purple;">(talk) 01:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete, appears to be sort of a POV fork of Hindu nationalism. 6SJ7 01:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete because nearly any article that has "extremism" in the title predisposes the reader to interpret the subject in a negative way. Huge WP:POV problems.  The existance of other extremism articles isn't a defense of this one (and many of those should be deleted).  If there's anything salvageable within the content, it could be included in more balanced presentations within other articles. Tarinth 01:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€  02:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete, POV. --musicpvm 02:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Elizmr 02:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete - I have an opinion that all Extremism sites should be removed whether they are about Hinduism, Islam, Christianity or any other, because those extremist elements are not derived from the ‘Truth’ of those religions but from those of who were ‘Fanatic’ of those religions or misused those religions.

Jesus Christ never said anywhere to spread the God’s message in ruthless ways, but what had actually happened in the Old Europe, West Asia and rest of the world. The newly Christianized Emperors and their local rulers destroyed the most beautiful Pagan Temples in then Roman Empire everywhere in the Old Europe and West Asia. Frankish King Charlemagne in the Saxon Wars converted Saxons into Christianity by massacring thousands of them ruthlessly. The European colonizers in Asia, Africa and Americas so ruthlessly killed native inhabitants to convert them into Christianity and destroyed their Temples. Islamic kings and Emperors were not second to others.

Even in the Hindu society was and is divided by various caste systems. But if you carefully analyze there is mystery on many things of their originality. Whether they really represent the original Hinduism or the derivatives, which was blended with.

When the Indo-Europeans conquered the Indus-Valley Civilization there were not only a mixture of religious faiths but also the customs and practices based on the dominant group toward the early Hinduism for their survival. One can’t rule out the warriors who conquered and married the local women brought the customs for their survival, which latter derived into rigid caste systems in India and the marginalization of widows for their own purposes. So it is not prudent to observe Extremism in Hinduism, but wipe out those weeds of customs, which were introduced within the Hinduism from the pre-historical times and the fanatics who misuse the Hinduism.

Rajsingam 03:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

"
 * Delete as a POV fork. Beit Or 05:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per AMbroodEY.POV Garbage!Akanksha 06:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletions.   -- Mereda 07:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete - &mdash; Lost (talk) 08:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete: Perhaps an article on Religious extremism (currently redirecting to Extremism) can be written that examines the general phenomenon based on academic studies rather than newspaper clippings. Only such a scholarly article dealing with the sociological, psychological, political, historical and religious aspects could be sufficiently encyclopedic. Abecedare 08:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge with Hindu nationalism and delete this. --  Szvest   - <sup style="background: gold">Wiki me up ®  11:59, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. POV fork, inherently POV. Jayjg <small style="color:darkgreen;">(talk) 18:06, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete. POV fork, inherently POV. They can use 'Hindutva' page. RSS was not founded by Fascism or Nazism admirers and it had nothing to do with Gandhi's murder. Godse was a member of Hindu Mahasabha. It is christian propaganda machinery at work. Aupmanyav 19:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete. Of course.nids(&#9794;) 20:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep add reference of persecution of Muslims in Gujarat and other states; destruction of church, rape and murder of Nuns in various parts of India, murder of Graham Staines etc. Hindu Extremism is a reality. StopUntouchability
 * This users third edit. One of them was to create his user page.nids(&#9794;) 16:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep Delete, as per Christian extremism, Islamic extremism etc. I've changed my mind here. Islamic extremism which I thought was well-established as an article seems to be going down in flames in its AFD which would make keeping other articles on particular religious extermisms impossible to justify. A new article on Religious extremism is also preferable because of NPOV. --Duke of Duchess Street 03:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete, there is an article on Hindu nationalism. The comparison with, say, 'Islamic extremism' doesn't work. 'Islamic extremism' (although I don't suggest that this would be an NPOV naming) is, in many cases, an ideological movement seeking to establish a political and legal system based in Islamic teachings. This is not really the case regarding so-called 'Hindu extremists'. Hindu nationalists (RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, etc.) are not necessarily very devout religious people, but rather Hinduism is a group identity around which politics is formed. --Soman 15:55, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete POV fork per nom,  Tewfik <sup style="color:#888888;">Talk 18:21, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not encyclopedic article, rather a soap box collecting unrelated events under one label. Pavel Vozenilek 03:03, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, --Shyamsunder 12.57, 02 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.